ConferenceCall 2012 03 22

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 (for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)
 Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.    (37RO)
 -- begin in-session chat-transcript --    (37RP)
	PeterYim: Welcome to the    (37YG)
	 = OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 2012-03-22 =    (37YH)
	Summit Theme: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"    (37YI)
	Track (1&2) Title: Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering    (37YJ)
	Track Co-champions: Dr. MatthewWest and Dr. HensonGraves    (37YK)
	Session Topic: Big Systems: The ontology of System Components, and System Modelling Language Requirements    (37YL)
	Session Chair: Dr. Matthew West    (37YM)
	Panel Briefings:    (37YN)
	*  Dr. NicolaGuarino (IAOA; ISTC-CNR LOA, Italy) - "Functional roles and their realizations"    (37YO)
	*  Mr. ChrisPartridge (BORO Solutions, UK) - " 'System Components' as a litmus test for your ontological architecture "    (37YP)
	*  Mr. DavidLeal (CAESAR Systems, UK), presented by Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction, UK) 
	   - "Some thoughts on requirements for languages in engineering"    (37YQ)
	*  Dr. HensonGraves (Algos Associates, US) - "Using Ontology to Meet Big Systems Challenges"    (37YR)
	Session page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_03_22    (37YS)
	Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute    (37YT)
	Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"    (37YU)
	 == Proceedings: ==    (37YV)
	anonymous morphed into MatthewKHettinger    (37YW)
	anonymous morphed into RexBrooks    (37YX)
	HensonGraves: @johnbilmanis - do you remember me    (37YY)
	anonymous1 morphed into TomTinsley    (37YZ)
	anonymous morphed into ChristopherSpottiswoode    (37Z0)
	anonymous morphed into ChrisPartridge    (37Z1)
	anonymous morphed into AnatolyLevenchuk    (37Z2)
	anonymous1 morphed into ElizabethFlorescu    (37Z3)
	anonymous morphed into Henry (IBM)    (37Z4)
	PeterYim: ERRATA: (first line above) session should be: = OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 
	2012-03-22 =    (37Z5)
	PeterYim: == MatthewWest introducing the session ...    (37Z6)
	PeterYim: == NicolaGuarino presenting ...    (37Z7)
	anonymous morphed into DougFoxvog    (37Z8)
	PeterYim: @Henry (IBM) - would you click on "settings" and morph into your real name, please? 
	Thanks.    (37Z9)
	Henry (IBM) morphed into HenryBroodney    (37ZA)
	PeterYim: @HenryBroodney - many thanks, ... Welcome    (37ZB)
	HenryBroodney: @PeterYim Thank you    (37ZC)
	SimonSpero: @Nicola: I have problems with these examples (and some from the paper)    (37ZD)
	SimonSpero: @Nicola: Some are at most one '?' in my idiolect    (37ZE)
	SimonSpero: @Nicola: After the Jello incident, Sandy was replaced as Kim's BFF    (37ZF)
	GaryBergCross: Slide 7?    (37ZG)
	SimonSpero: @Nicola: (From paper) << I have a good neighbour">> . Not just acceptable, but 
	idiomatic.    (37ZH)
	DougFoxvog: For X being a role, "s/he is a good X" means that s/he performs expected types of 
	actions someone playing that role "should" do relative to the subject. friend(A,B) obligates B in 
	relation to A, while classmate(A,B) obligates B relative to A far less. That is why "B is a good 
	classmate of A" is marked '*'.    (37ZI)
	AmandaVizedom: Simon: What paper are you referring to? I don't see a reference in the slides; did I 
	miss it?    (37ZJ)
	SteveRay: Hmm, it seems to me that you can replace both a classmate and a teacher...    (37ZK)
	JackRing: Seems to me these are examples of the general case of stating a coordinate system then the 
	location of the item in the system.    (37ZL)
	JackRing: e.g. is right headlamp the 'not left' or the    (37ZM)
	JackRing: "correct" headlamp?    (37ZN)
	MatthewWest: not left    (37ZO)
	DougFoxvog: @Steve: A teacher can replace your classmate, but i fail to see how you can do so in a 
	standard class situation.    (37ZP)
	JeffreyWallk: I tend to think about a role as a set of functional activities framed by a position in 
	an organization and the context with which the role is operating rather than a defined set of 
	"rules". Perhaps a discussion for later..    (37ZQ)
	SimonSpero: AmandaVizedom: A link was sent to a draft on dropbox    (37ZR)
	JackRing: @ Matthew. In this example "not left" is pretty obvious but my point illustrates the 
	uncertainty of any specific term.    (37ZS)
	SimonSpero: @Amanda: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRoles.pdf    (37ZT)
	NicolaGuarino: A revised version (BUT STILL UNPUBLISHED!) or my paper is here 
	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRolesV2.pdf    (37ZU)
	SimonSpero: @Nicola: Thanks    (37ZV)
	PeterYim: == ChrisPartridge presenting ...    (37ZW)
	DougFoxvog: Are not the object part and the object in the same place at the same time?    (37ZX)
	SimonSpero: Is the Clay the statue?    (37ZY)
	NicolaGuarino: @Chris: When I meet the President, the legal person and the physical person are in 
	front of me at the same time in the same location    (37ZZ)
	anonymous morphed into PavithraKenjige    (3800)
	JackRing: Replacement is ambiguous. Replacement may indicate similarity to tyre removed whereas 
	perhaps the original was summer and the second one a winter tyre.    (3801)
	anonymous morphed into FOUGHALI    (3802)
	TerryLongstreth: Slide 9 is a great graphic    (3803)
	SimonSpero: Deflationary approaches to tyres can be problematic    (3804)
	JackRing: Is Rosen / Kineman relational algebra not useful here?    (3805)
	NicolaGuarino: @Jack: replacement is always relative to a function (or an expected behaviour). As 
	long as a generic behavior for the car is expected, you can replace a winter tyre with a summer 
	tyre. The role "car tyre" allows such replacement, but of course the role "winter tyre" doesn't    (3806)
	SimonSpero: Unicorns are Pegasi    (3807)
	DougFoxvog: What's wrong with multiple kinds of parthood? Parthood at one time does not imply 
	parthood of a 4D worm, or vice-versa.    (3808)
	MatthewKHettinger: @Jeffrey IMO a role is a collection of *expected* functional activities ..... 
	e.g. see DougFoxvog. Rules may be considered to be part of the context by which expectations may be 
	defined. The network of roles may form the the basis for an architecture of a system of interest 
	e.g. enterprise, federation. As you say, perhaps a discussion for later.    (3809)
	JeffreyWallk: @MatthewKHettinger: Agreed...look forward to it    (380A)
	DougFoxvog: @Simon: It depends on the context. In the context of various conceptual works, it is 
	false that Unicorns are Pegasi. (assuming the existence of Pegasi) -- i thought that "Pegasus" was 
	the name of an individual, not the name of a class.    (380B)
	anonymous morphed into RafaelPena    (380C)
	GaryBergCross: It certainly seems that the conceptualization that Nicola spoke about earlier is very 
	relevant to how parts are discussed as part of an abstract pattern that is a car.    (380D)
	DavidFlater: Intentionally speaking, having wings is a necessary condition for being a Pegasus (or 
	the Pegasus). Unicorns don't qualify. However, two classes with empty extents are equivalent in the 
	extensional sense.    (380E)
	DougFoxvog: What about the automobile of Theseus? At what point as parts are replaced do we still 
	have the same automobile? Can an automobile have its chassis replaced?    (380F)
	PeterYim: == MatthewWest, presenting DavidLeal's material ...    (380G)
	JackRing: @Nicola - Re: DavidLeal's Slide 16 it seems that the designer must be aware of the degree 
	of specificity that may be presumed by the observer.    (380H)
	SteveRay: Actually, isn't it Matthew West playing the role of David Leal?    (380I)
	GaryBergCross: Isn't Matthew REPLACING David ? It's not a change....except his voice is different...    (380J)
	DougFoxvog: @David, Simon: it depends on "X are Y" means. Is it merely, "Every instance of X is an 
	instance of Y"? The truth of such a statement is context dependent. If it means "Any instance of X 
	is necessarily an instance of Y", then David is correct.    (380K)
	anonymous morphed into PercySalas    (380L)
	NicolaGuarino: @Matthew (and David): in slide 4, the three cases at the bottom (excluding part 
	types) can be represented using Dolce's qualities without the need of classes of classes    (380M)
	SimonSpero: DougFoxvog: Right - the inten_s_ional stance if you will    (380N)
	NicolaGuarino: @Matthew: I would model ownership as a (static) event which has its starting and 
	ending time, and so on... This gives us much more flexibility t    (380O)
	JeffreyWallk: Do we need to think about an object (part if you will) having a location ? Or, can we 
	think about it's relationship to other things ... location is typically relegated to positioning 
	within 2 or 3 dimensional perspectives. So, what if i step back and consider an idea (rather than a 
	part) ....where would I "position" this in a business model (or more tactically within a product 
	design) ?    (380P)
	DougFoxvog: @Jeffrey: We can define spatial and aspatial objects as well as temporal and atemporal 
	objects. An agreement/account/song would be aspatial and temporal. A Platonic solid would be spatial 
	and atemporal.    (380Q)
	SimonSpero: @Doug: But in 4-D, aspatial things becomes complicated. What is the difference between a 
	point (at time t) whose location is not known, and a fictional character (in the real world) at time 
	t - for example, Sherlock Holmes, who came in to existence (given intenten_t_ional stance) when 
	conceived of by Sir Arthur    (380R)
	SimonSpero: @Doug: Cyc approach is better    (380S)
	NicolaGuarino: ...this implies introducing thematic roles: Fred is the *experiencer* of an ownership 
	event, whose *theme* is Fido    (380T)
	PeterYim: == HensonGraves presenting ...    (380U)
	NicolaGuarino: @Matthew: I strongly agree on the importance to have variable in a representation 
	formalism. This is in my opinion one of the biggest problem of current description logics.    (380V)
	MatthewWest: @Nicola: Yes, I noticed that too. David was just a bit sloppy there.    (380W)
	MatthewWest: @Nicola: Yes I agree again that variables are important for serious work.    (380X)
	DougFoxvog: @Simon: Cyc uses the concept of a "FictionalContext". From its comment, "In general, a 
	FictionalContext is assumed to include many assertions that are widely believed to be false or 
	questionable. Such assertions might or might not be about actually-existing things. For example, the 
	fictional context associated with the Sherlock Holmes stories contains assertions about London as 
	well as assertions about Holmes. "     (380Y)
	DougFoxvog: Cyc also has "FictionalWorksMt to provide facts about fictional works. It's comment 
	states ""This microtheory contains true facts about all fictional Mts, e.g. Dracula-TheNovel, 
	TheSimpsonsMt. This Mt includes information about the type of fictional work, the characters (see 
	characterInCW), and other information. authorOfLiteraryWork-CW assertions should be made in 
	LiteraryPeopleDataMt. Information presented in a fictional work should be asserted in the PIT 
	associated with that work (see ContextOfPCWFn) or in #$FactsInFictionalWorksMt."     (380Z)
	DougFoxvog: Statements about characters as characters are true in a different context than 
	statements about the characters in the context in which they are real -- the context of the works in 
	which they are presented.    (3810)
	SimonSpero: @Doug: Right - but the creation of the character "Sherlock Holmes" is a fact in 
	consensual reality, and real thoughts can be "about" that character    (3811)
	DavidFlater: Real thoughts?    (3812)
	DougFoxvog: @Simon: What is the problem with expressing statements about "Sherlock Holmes" in a 
	"real-world" context? In a 1999 context,    (3813)
	DougFoxvog: various things can be said about the character. More statements are true now, since 
	movies using the character have been produced.    (3814)
	SimonSpero: Doug: It's a 4D problem    (3815)
	DougFoxvog: @Simon: I'm not sure that lack of knowledge of the future should be considered a PROBLEM 
	.    (3816)
	JackRing: Re: Henson slide 3: The main root cause is that the model did not project system behavior, 
	e.g., what the system is supposed to do, not just what it is.    (3817)
	JeffreyWallk: This presentation is thoroughly resonating ...thank you. Henson, are you available for 
	an offline discussion ??    (3818)
	HensonGraves: @jeffrey yes    (3819)
	JeffreyWallk: Henson please feel free to reach me at jeffrey.wallk [at] ul.com    (381A)
	PeterYim: == back to MatthewWest ... open Q&A    (381B)
	JackRing: No examples for enthusiasm, tenacity, etc. for modeling human activity systems. Warfield 
	warned years ago that as the problematic situation becomes large enough then the designers become 
	THE problem. We cannot deal with Big Systems without coping with the Human Activity System modeling 
	practices.    (381C)
	MatthewKHettinger: @Jack ++1    (381D)
	JackRing: Pls see http://www.starkermann.com    (381E)
	RexBrooks: There was a group in OASIS several years ago that made an attempt to model human-specific 
	information in a Humanmarkup Language, but it didn't get enough participation to carry it beyond 
	some very basic modeling of physical characteristics and a bare beginning for psychological or 
	sociological characteristics.    (381F)
	RexBrooks: So those problems that Jack noted remain unmodeled.    (381G)
	MatthewKHettinger: @Rex those problems are not as yet completely modeled, especially in a coherent 
	fashion.    (381H)
	RexBrooks: In DoDAF and MoDAF there is another set of characteristics being modeled as "Human Views" 
	for analyzing or putting values to various characteristics relating to competencies and 
	capabilities.    (381I)
	RexBrooks: @MatthewKHettinger - Yes, it still remains.    (381J)
	DougFoxvog: (genls Enthusiasm Excitement) (genls (MediumToVeryHighAmountFn 
	Enthusiasm)(PositiveAmountFn Excitement)) Cyc has done some modeling for Enthusiasm, etc. OpenCyc 
	has no rules, so i'm not sure how well this is ontologized. I would not be surprised if there are 
	not many statements about such terms -- probably because no one has funded such work.    (381K)
	RexBrooks: The DoDAF folks are aimed at "Performance" abilities.    (381L)
	DougFoxvog: Cyc's list of emotions are: Abhorrence Admiration Adulation Affection Ambivalence 
	Amusement-Feeling Anger Anguish Anticipation-Feeling Approval Awe Belligerence Boredom Calmness 
	Celebratory-Emotion Charm Cheerfulness Companionship-Feeling Concern Confidence Confusion-Generic 
	Contempt Contentment Courageousness-Feeling Curiosity Cuteness-EmotionalResponse 
	Defeatedness-Feeling Delight Depression-Feeling Desire Despair Diffidence Disappointment Disapproval 
	Disgust Dislike Displeasure Disrespect Dissatisfaction Distress Doubt Dread Eagerness Elation 
	Embarrassment EmotionalColdness Empathy Enjoyment Entertained-Emotion Enthusiasm Envy Excitement 
	Fear FeelingOfCompetence Flippancy Freedom-Emotion Friendliness Frustration Gloominess GoodWill 
	Gratitude Grief Guilt Happiness Hate Hope Hostility Humility Impatience Indecision Indifference 
	Ingratitude Initiative Innocence Insecurity Inspiration-Emotion Interest-Feeling Irony Irritation 
	Jealousy Like Listlessness Loneliness Love Love-Romantic Loyalty Lust Machismo-Pride Misery Mistrust 
	Modesty Nationalism Nervousness Nostalgia Offendedness-Feeling Panic Passion Patience Patriotism 
	Pensiveness Piety Pity Pleasure-Feeling Pride PrideOfAccomplishment PrideOfMembership Rage 
	Rebelliousness-Feeling Regret Relaxation Relief-Feeling Remorse Reproach Resentment 
	Reservation-Feeling Resolution-Emotion Respect Restlessness Reverence Sadness Satisfaction 
	Security-Emotion SelfConfidence SexualArousal SexualGratification Shame Shock Solemnity Solitude 
	SpiritualElitism Stress-Feeling Surprise Suspense Sympathy Touched-Feeling TrappedFeeling Triumph 
	Uncertainty Uneasiness Unhappiness Vanity Willingness Wonder-Admiration     (381M)
	RexBrooks: In OASIS we stayed with the emotions that the human facial muscles can, often 
	unconsciously, express and then gave them a range of values to indicate how strongly the emotion was 
	expressed or could be expressed. Even that quickly eclipsed the ability to compute combinations of 
	those basic emotions.    (381N)
	JackRing: The state of the design is not known to managers because no one included a task for 
	"knowing system design viability" c.f., Steve Krane, INCOSE, who does it every day.    (381O)
	PeterYim: (to capture a verbal exchange ... ref. audio recording) - is modal logic a prerequisite 
	when we need to include people into our systems model?    (381P)
	MatthewWest: @Peter: yes    (381Q)
	PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:23am PDT --    (381R)
 -- end of in-session chat-transcript --    (37RQ)

ConferenceCall 2012 03 22

OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 2012-03-22 (37P6)

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