Hi Pat, (01)
That makes perfect sense, and gives me some useful pointers about things
like "ISIN Code" and the like as well. (02)
Have a great holiday! (03)
Mike (04)
Pat Hayes wrote:
>
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:15 PM, Mike Bennett wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't a trope (if it was represented in OWL for example) be an
>> individual as opposed to a class? Presumably the same concept would
>> apply in other notations.
>
> You could take it either way. I guess my (actually Johns) point could
> be summarized by the claim that its more useful to treat them as very
> 'small' OWL properties which have domains which are singleton
> classes. Sounds complicated, but it keeps them in the same category as
> other properties, which makes the ontology cleaner. So for example if
> hasColor is a property which applies to PhysicalSurfaces with values
> like red, blue, etc., all in the Color class, then the color trope of
> my nose would be a subproperty of hasColor whose domain of application
> is restricted to the singleton class containing
> the_surface_of_Pats_nose and the value reddishPink, say. The color
> here is the *value* of the property, which makes color tropes not
> exactly comparable to colors themselves; but that might be an
> advantage, in fact. It lets us say that the color of my nose is the
> same as the color of my finger, without saying that the tropes are the
> same.
>
> But all this is ontology-hacking, which is probably slightly premature
> at this stage. Brief summary: if you are willing to allow a bit of
> OWL hacking, tropes come for free, so you don't need to make the base
> ontology more complicated by putting them in explicitly.
>
> Pat H
>
>>
>> In which case, I would take it as a given that any proposed, reusable
>> ontology is unlikely to include any individual / instance information
>> anyway, except for specific instances that are referred to in class
>> definitions of other kinds of thing.
>>
>> But I agree that this is all the more reason to include the definition
>> of this in any discourse around the subject.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Pat Hayes wrote:
>>> On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:33 PM, ingvar_johansson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pat Hayes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think this is not what is meant, if I understand the 'trope'
>>>>> language. Take a concrete case, a measurement of length in meters and
>>>>> two identical sticks A and B, with exactly the same length. There is
>>>>> one property here, called "length", which applies to both sticks and
>>>>> produces the same value in each case, say 3.1 meters. So: two sticks,
>>>>> one property, one length value of that property.
>>>>>
>>>> I think the solution is to accept the existence of both properties and
>>>> tropes (property instances). So: two sticks, one property, two
>>>> property
>>>> instances, one length value of that property that are instantiated
>>>> twice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, my purpose was only to make the difference clear; but as to my
>>> own opinion, I see no good reason to allow tropes. They serve only to
>>> confuse things, and have no useful ontological role. As John Sowa has
>>> mentioned, one can always consider a trope to be a subproperty of the
>>> original property, one which applies only to one individual. That is
>>> if tropes are felt to be indispensable in your metaphysics. On this
>>> view, the length of A is identical to the length of B, and the A-
>>> length of A is equal to the length of A, but B simply does not have an
>>> A-length.
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ingvar Johansson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Bennett
>> Director
>> Hypercube Ltd.
>> 89 Worship Street
>> London EC2A 2BF
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>>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973
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> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (05)
--
Mike Bennett
Director
Hypercube Ltd.
89 Worship Street
London EC2A 2BF
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7917 9522
Mob: +44 (0) 7721 420 730
www.hypercube.co.uk
Registered in England and Wales No. 2461068 (06)
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