I thought I had mentioned this. I have spoken with both Ambler
Thompson, who is a U.S. representative to ISO TC12 and TC25, and to
Charles Ehrlich, who is on the BIPM task group for the VIM and the GUM. (01)
Ambler is willing to take to TC12 any issues we have with ISO 80000.
With assistance, he will look at our drafts with respect to their
consistency with ISO 80000, if and when we ask him, but he views the
ontology work as an IT thing that TC12 will ignore as long as it isn't
inconsistent with the SI publications. (02)
Chuck Ehrlich is willing to serve as our VIM guru and to raise issues of
ambiguities in the BIPM TG. He believes, however, that we may run
directly into a deliberate ambiguity that is the result of a
disagreement between two camps. The notion of the "magnitude of a
quantity" as an interpretation of "quantity" is sacred to the
specification camp and heresy to the measurement camp. The big issue is
about which notion the word "quantity" is used for, and in VIM3 it is
both. So we are guaranteed to have a political problem when we try to
sort that out. (03)
-Ed (04)
--
Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
National Institute of Standards & Technology
Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Tel: +1 301-975-3528
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263 FAX: +1 301-975-4694 (05)
Mason, Howard (UK) wrote:
> Useful link into the ISO/IEC metrology groups - I have responded.
>
> I have invited Ed to coordinate with the NIST link mentioned below.
>
>
>
> Howard Mason
> Corporate IT Office
> Tel: +44 1252 383129
> Mob: +44 780 171 3340
> Eml: howard.mason@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:howard.mason@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> BAE Systems plc
> Registered Office: 6 Carlton Gardens, London, SW1Y 5AD, UK
> Registered in England & Wales No: 1470151
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: drpaul Gerome [mailto:drdrpaul@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 02 December 2009 21:26
> To: j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Mason, Howard (UK); Geoff Williams; Anders J Thor; Anders J Thor
> Subject: Re: SS/7 - More info re Stanard UOM ontology
>
>
> *** WARNING ***
>
> This message has originated outside your organisation,
> either from an external partner or the Global Internet.
> Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
>
>
>
> hi everyone!
>
> I rather say that I did some OASIS Contributions a long time ago on
>Biometrics (Phil Griffin, and his substitute when he resigned) and I did like
>it
> I lost my Individual Membership when I did not get any information on how to
>pay my IM fees in US $ and to whom...
> But I am keen to be an interlocutor if decision is taken to liaise with
>ISO/TC 12 (I am the Convenor of WG 13)
> and/or IEC/TC 25 (I am the Convenor of WG 5) and metrology is much in my
>scope as an expert.
>
> Well, I am yours to talk more, if needs arise
>
> dear John, thanks for informing us
>
> I think that you cannot avoid to speak with Ambler Thompson ["Ambler
>Thompson" <ambler@xxxxxxxx<mailto:ambler@xxxxxxxx>>] before gooing to far
>[see..he is from NIST]
> as the US Government seems to be proud to keep more than one closed eye on
>anything <metrology>
> keep it in mind before starting anything, frowning is a small act for
>Governments and Regulators - just advising!
>
> yours kindly
>
> paul
>
>
>
> 2009/12/2 John Larmouth
><j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Howard,
>
> Thank you for this - I will try to remember to monitor the activity from
>time-to-time.
>
> There really should be absolutely NO hostility from other Standards groups,
>provided the liaisons are properly established and they have an opportunity to
>comment as the work proceeds, particularly if duplicate definitions start to
>deviate from 80000 series or SI definitions (I guess I hope they won't).
>
> But I repeat my earlier comment that you should set up at an early stage
>contacts to ensure fast-tracking of the results of the OASIS work in ISO (or
>IEC). I think that would be very good. I think for this area of work,
>fast-tracking in ITU-T would be unnecessary - an OASIS and an ISO or IEC
>Standard should be sufficient. I think a part 99 of the 80000 series would
>be good.
>
> It is not normal in the UK for BSI to publish ISO Standards as a BSI
>Standard, but if this was fast-tracked as a part of the 80000 series, that
>would become automatic.
>
> We really need to get Anders Thor or Paul Gerome involved in these
>discussions sooner rather than later.
>
> John L
>
> Mason, Howard (UK) wrote:
> Oasis meeting records are public, but you don't get on the distribution list
>unless you are a member.
>
> I assume that the initial meeting will endeavour to establish the necesary
>liaisons, and trust that we will not find too much hostility from the
>standards groups, as the ontology will in effect be a derivative work.
>
> Howard Mason
> Corporate IT Office
> Tel: +44 1252 383129
> Mob: +44 780 171 3340
> Eml: howard.mason@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:howard.mason@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> BAE Systems plc
> Registered Office: 6 Carlton Gardens, London, SW1Y 5AD, UK
> Registered in England & Wales No: 1470151
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Larmouth [mailto:j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 30 November 2009 16:55
> To: Geoff Williams; Mason, Howard (UK)
>
> Subject: Re: SS/7 - More info re Stanard UOM ontology
>
>
> *** WARNING ***
>
> This message has originated outside your organisation,
> either from an external partner or the Global Internet.
> Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
>
>
>
> Geoff and Howard,
>
> It is hard to answer this. I absolutely agree that an ontology in this area
>would be a good thing, provided all interested parties are involved - which it
>seems from what Howard says *they will be*.
>
> I am not sure the ontology will answer the ambiguous symbol problem, unless
>the ontology gives both definitions *and* "normally-used symbols", stating
>clearly *the Unicode values of the latter*. Maybe Howard can take that
>on-board. (Howard, I don't think OASIS has the concept of an observer - free
>- membership, but I would be interested to track this work, and comment to you
>as best I can on what gets produced, but if you forward stuff as liaison to
>ISO TC12 and IEC TC25, then I should get it.)
>
> On IST/35 - I am a member. But I suspect that getting them seriously
>interested in this stuff will be difficult. But I would welcome some formal
>contact between SS/7 and IST/35 in this area, as there is (perhaps) going to
>be between the OASIS TC and TC 215 and HL7.
>
> Geoff, I *do* continue to be interested in the SS/7 work, and will continue
>as acting Chairman for as long as you need me (but I hope you can get a proper
>replacement Chairman soon, but I just cannot justify to my family the costs of
> attending meetings in Gunnersbury from my personal pocket. Sorry.
>
> John L
>
> Geoff Williams wrote:
>
> John
>
> Thanks for your responses and for you continued interest. I have attached
>the unreadable document in a zip archive. Hopefully the wrapper will enable
>you to receive it in its correct format which is an .mht web page. It
>contains the draft Charter for the OASIS TC. You may have already seen this.
>As Howard says, the Ontolog forum (whose activity I have been tracking since
>you alerted me back in June) are well aware of the BIPM, VIM and ISO 80000
>series. I did take the opportunity of alerting them (Ontolog UoM forum) to
>these documents back in June.
>
> This ontology could be very useful for any application using electronic
>communications between applications and may be the answer to the ambiguous
>symbol problem that the UK identified through the telebiometric and
>telemedicine initiatives. I think that we need to get IST/35 more involved.
>We need people from the medical community with IT experience working on these
>projects.
>
> I am trying to raise SS/7 interest in what is happening but many members do
>not understand why there is a need for an ontology on the subject.
>
> Regards
>
> Geoffrey Williams
> Programme Manager,
> Business Process Improvement Standards
> Standards Operations
>
> _____________________________
>
>
> BSI, 389 Chiswick High Road, London, W4 4AL, UK
> Tel: +44 (0)20 8996 7411
> Fax: +44(0)20 8996 7249
> email: geoff.williams@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:geoff.williams@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Web: www.bsigroup.com<http://www.bsigroup.com/>
>
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Larmouth [mailto:j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 29 November 2009 14:17
> To: ss_7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ss_7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Cc: Geoff Williams; djnewson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:djnewson@xxxxxxxxxx>;
>brian.petley@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:brian.petley@xxxxxxxxx>;
>davidtbartlett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:davidtbartlett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>jeff.flowers@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:jeff.flowers@xxxxxxxxx>;
>markus.kuhn@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:markus.kuhn@xxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>i.m.mills@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:i.m.mills@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>enquiries@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:enquiries@xxxxxxxxxx>;
>bryan.manning@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:bryan.manning@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>christopherjenkins@xxxxxxxxxxx;
>john.pain@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:john.pain@xxxxxxxxxx>;
>agrichards@xxxxxxx<mailto:agrichards@xxxxxxx>
>
>
> Subject: Re: SS/7 - More info re Stanard UOM ontology
>
> Geoff,
>
> Your attachment was not readable by me - just came up as binary - but I
> think it is covered by my recent mailings on this subject.
>
> John L
>
>
> ss_7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ss_7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> To respond to this message please click 'REPLY TO ALL'
>
> To the Members of Technical Committee SS/7
> General metrology, quantities units and symbols
>
> Dear Colleagues
>
> Further to my earlier email and the discussion at the SS/7 meeting today, I
>have jut found out that an OASIS TC has been proposed to develop the
>international standard, which I expect will be subsequently fast-tracked as an
>ISO standard.
>
> Please see the attached document.
>
> Regards
>
> Geoff Williams
> SS/7 Programme Manager
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> -- This email is in reference to SS/007 General metrology, quantities, units
>and symbols and was sent on behalf of G H Williams (BSI)
>(geoff.williams@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:geoff.williams@xxxxxxxxxxxx>). --
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> This email may contain confidential information and/or copyright
> material. This email is intended for the use of the addressee only.
> Any unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you receive this email
> by mistake, please contact
>ecommittee.support@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ecommittee.support@xxxxxxxxxxxx>.
>
> Thank you for your co-operation.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Prof John Larmouth
> Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> (Training and Protocol Design Services Ltd)
> 1 Blueberry Road
> Bowdon
>j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Altrincham
> Cheshire
> WA14 3LS
> England
> Tel: +44 161 928 1605
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
> You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
> distribute its contents to any other person.
> ********************************************************************
>
>
>
> --
> Prof John Larmouth
> Larmouth T&PDS Ltd
> (Training and Protocol Design Services Ltd)
> 1 Blueberry Road
> Bowdon
>j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:j.larmouth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Altrincham
> Cheshire
> WA14 3LS
> England
> Tel: +44 161 928 1605
>
>
>
>
> --
> dr paul Gerome
>
> ********************************************************************
> This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
> You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
> distribute its contents to any other person.
> ********************************************************************
>
>
> (06)
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