Re: [socop-forum] [ontology-based-standards] small follow-up on RE: "Ont

[Ron Lake <rlake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Josh;

 

Yes this is a case where the semantic net models like OWL/RDFS seem more appropriate as a property can be assigned to multiple classes. River-fordability would seem more like a property of the river to me, and a ford is a feature where “we” have agreed to designate a crossing point. 

Ron

 

From: socop-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:socop-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joshua Lieberman
Sent: October-18-13 9:10 AM
To: Gary Berg-Cross
Cc: ontology-based-standards; Socop Forum
Subject: Re: [socop-forum] [ontology-based-standards] small follow-up on RE: "Ontology-based Standards" mini-series session-5 - Ontologies for Geospatial Standards - Thu 2013.10.17

 

A ford or ferry has traditionally been considered as feature separate from a water body or water or streambed with separate properties derived from all of the above. It also is an example of features where the traditional class model struggles to represent that the water depth property, for example, is common to multiple features in type and/or value.

 

On Oct 18, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Gary Berg-Cross <gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Josh,

 

But can't I have a concept like river-fordability as a feature of interest which involves several things such as water depth but also presence of crocs, piranhas, sharp rocks etc. 

Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.  

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On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Joshua Lieberman <josh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Remember that the sampling and of-interest features are just that - features discerned for a particular set of applications. A common basis for this discernment is that the material of the feature has uniform or at least expressible properties which are distinct from those around the feature. In this case, water properties are distinct from crocodile properties - unless of course the waterbody is so large and the crocs so numerous that it can be treated as a porous medium feature. Not, fortunately, a common occurrence.

 

-Josh

 

 

On Oct 18, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Gary Berg-Cross <gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Alex>I think they have an amendment to the coefficient of viscosity of the water in this case;-)

 

Building on this feature-property of interest (viscosity) crocs, like large stones in some bodies of water such as rivers/streams are a "transport" problem.  But they have voids (stomachs) unlike all stones that may get filled with transported features such as people.  :-0

Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.  

gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx     

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross

NSF INTEROP Project  

http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816

SOCoP Executive Secretary

Knowledge Strategies    

Potomac, MD

240-426-0770

 

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:53 AM, Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Simon,

 

I think it's just more simple: Torsen gave us elements of hydrology theory (formal one;-) abstracted from bio-objects.

Suppose this theory can predict flood movement and other hydrology processes.

But where crocodiles? They are neglected. Abstraction.

They do not impact to hydrological processes of interest. Do they?

Ask hydrologists:-)

I think they have an amendment to the coefficient of viscosity of the water in this case;-)

 

Alex

 

2013/10/18 <Simon.Cox@xxxxxxxx>

 

Re the discussion about water/crocodiles/water bodies etc:

This issue is partly accommodated by the O&M model, where the 'feature-of-interest' (e.g. a specific water body) is distinguished from the 'observed-property' (concentration of crocodiles) (and also from the procedure or sensor).
This in turn is a corollary of the underlying 'feature model' which, like pretty much all of the meta-models we are using including OWL, distinguishes between classes/objects and properties/property-values.

There is an issue that many vocabularies of 'observed properties' conflate these concerns, so in standard water property vocabularies we see entries like:
   'concentration of crocodiles in a water body measured using a fooglemeter averaged over 3-day intervals and expressed as a number scaled by the unit-of-measure "bites"'.

But the analysis is established in O&M since many years now.

Simon

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