Hello All; (01)
Thanks for the clarification, Peter. (02)
It is inappropriate, it seems, to make an "executive" decision in most
communities such as Ontolog. I was simply suggesting a simpler path, and
avoiding possible additional complexity. (03)
Denise has experience with the Terragram application and the WebMaster
application. (04)
What is best for an initial Taxo-Thesaurus project? (05)
Cheers, (06)
Bob (07)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontologizing-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontologizing-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter P. Yim
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 8:36 AM
To: Ontologizing-Ontolog
Subject: Re: [ontologizing] Re: [OntologTaxoThesaurus] Status of the
inventory (08)
Bob et al., (09)
> [Bob] Beyond a.1 is thus beyond where we want to go. (010)
[ppy] if this is an executive decision, then possibly so.
However, legally (if that's the only constraint we are looking at), then we
can go much further. (011)
Let me first rephrase my earlier statements to make it clearer.
The update of it now reads: (012)
//
(a) anything that's accessible without a password within the Ontolog-CWE
(http://ontolog.cim3.net ... caveat: see (a.1) below) i.e. the wiki, the
forum and the file areas - we have definitely have no problem, as clearly
stated on our IPR policy (ref:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32 ) (013)
(a.1) regarding the file workspaces: supposedly, the "file/work"
workspace (http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/) contains work that Ontolog
has IPR on, and the "file/resource" workspace
(http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/) has items we don't have IPR on, but
that we are allowed to republish (like other people's open content, open
standards, etc.) [also ref:
http://community.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FileWorkspaceAccess#nid5A ] (014)
(b) The same goes for all other "open" domains within the <cim3.net>
infrastructure. Which means, anything on other open-CWE's on <cim3.net> are
OK too. I host them based on the same (or
similar) premises. (ref:
http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid5FB or
http://imsus.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidY (015)
(c) anything that is outside the <cim3.net> domain is unclear (not just to
us, but to the industry at large ... say, is "deep linking" legal? what
constitutes "fair use" and what's not? ...).
Although, if we are accessing them, we're probably invoking our "fair use"
rights.
// (016)
That said, both (a) and (b) ((a.1) and, similarly, (b.1) will
apply) are definitely OK. As far as (c) is concerned, I feel that the legal
system has a lot to catch up on, before anyone can tell for sure. And, in
the mean time, I would almost say that we could go ahead and do whatever we
feel appropriate (reads "like"), until we are advised otherwise. ... It's
the "wild wild west" of cyberspace, still! (017)
Cheers. =ppy
-- (018)
Bob Smith wrote Fri, 5 May 2006 13:32:16 -0700:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks, Peter, for a precise answer. The constraints are clear for
> items within a.1. Beyond a.1 is thus beyond where we want to go.
>
> Comments, anyone?
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob
>
> PS, I am using a beta product, introduced to me by Robert Garigue, to
> inventory a small section of my files. After 2+ hours of chugging, it
> is about 40% complete... (019)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontologizing-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontologizing-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter P.
> Yim
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 12:43 PM
> To: 'Ontologizing-Ontolog'
> Subject: [ontologizing] Re: [OntologTaxoThesaurus] Status of the
> inventory
>
> > [Bob] Peter, do you see any IPR issues that constrain the > next step?
>
> [ppy] I have a three part answer:
>
> (a) anything that's accessible without a password within the
> Ontolog-CWE (http://ontolog.cim3.net ... caveat: see (a.1) below) i.e.
> the wiki, the forum and the file areas - we have definitely have no
> problem, as clearly stated on our IPR policy (ref:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32 )
>
> (a.1) supposedly, the file/work workspace
> (http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/ contains work that Ontolog has IPR
> on, and http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/ has items we don't have
> IPR on, but that we are allowed to republish (like other people's open
> content, open standards, etc.) [also ref:
> http://community.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FileWorkspaceAccess#nid5A ]
>
> (b) I can also say the same to other "open" domains within the
> <cim3.net> infrastructure. As I host them based on the same (or
> similar) premises. (ref:
> http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid5FB or
> http://imsus.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidY
>
> (c) anything that is outside the <ontolog.cim3.net> domain is unclear
> (not just to us, but to the industry at large ... say, is "deep linking"
legal?
> what constitutes "fair use" and what's not?
> ...). Although, if we are accessing them, we're probably invoking our
> "fair use" rights.
>
> Regards. =ppy
> --
>
>
> Bob Smith wrote Fri, 5 May 2006 12:05:27 -0700:
>> Hi,
>>
>> So we have the classic AI tradeoff between depth and breadth of
>> initial search, with some hope of a T compromise pattern.
>>
>> I have done file inventory projects before, but usually in manual
>> mode using no tools but the dos command line DIR >Filename or Tree /f
>> /a
>>> Filename. The results are large and ugly and very time-consuming.
>> With the capabilities of Denise, why don't we go for the balance she
>> feels comfortable with using?
>>
>> Peter, do you see any IPR issues that constrain the next step?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter P. Yim [mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:42 AM
>> To: Ontologizing-Ontolog; Denise Bedford; Bob Smith
>> Cc: lisa colvin
>> Subject: Re: [OntologTaxoThesaurus] Status of the inventory
>>
>> Hi Denise & Bob,
>>
>> This is exciting! Some thoughts ...
>>
>> 1. I agree with Denise, if you mine 6-levels deeps, but restrict the
> mining
>> to within the our domain*, then there's probably not much more to
>> gain out of the crawl.
>>
>> The CWE infrastructure design is inspired by Engelbart's notion of an
>> OHS (Open Hyperdocument System). Where one could treat all knowledge
>> objects
> as
>> being interlinked into a 'huge'
>> hyperdocument, with the hyperlink being the integration point(s).
>> Since its purpose is to augment the human, the most 'interesting'
>> things should always be one or two (say three) click away.
>> Therefore, keeping the crawl shallow is both efficient and effective
>> (much less noisy.)
>>
>> I wonder if you can set it to inventory ONE (or, at most, Two)
>> level(s) of content that is outside of our (cim3.net) domain?
>> [Disclaimer: one probably has to look into IPR issues too, even if we
>> do this.]
>>
>> 2. *Depending on the scope of this project (someone has to make a
>> call here), we should decide whether we want to restrict the
>> inventory to the domain of (a) <ontolog.cim3.net>, or (b) <cim3.net>.
>>
>> I have good things to say about each of these two options. This is
>> quite similar to how we needed to decide on the search corpus for our
>> google search - see http://ontolog.cim3.net - where we ended up offering
both.
>>
>> 3. one thing that is special about the wiki is that it keeps an
>> entire version history of any page. (see, for example, the
"UpperOntologySummit"
>> page http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit has
>> all these historic pages available:
>>
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=history&id=UpperOntolog
> ySummi
>> t
>> and version #180 of this particular page can be displayed as:
>>
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&id=UpperOntology
> Summit
>> &revision=180
>> ).
>>
>> In this example where there is more than 180 versions of the same
>> page, probably only the "current" version (the snapshot of that) is
>> of interest, as far as the exercise is concerned. Mind you, one
>> actually does not need
> to
>> "dig deeper" to reach those older versions. Therefore, when we fine
>> tune
> our
>> google search appliance (I believe I heard Denise mentioned that you
>> use
> the
>> google search appliance too, right?) we specifically filter out
>> crawls to "http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action="; (we
>> didn't index the historic versions) so that we keep the search corpus to
just the "current"
>> pages. ... Denise, you might want to consider if this is applicable
>> to
> your
>> exercise now.
>>
>> 4. Yes ... I totally agree that our work should best be shared with
>> other (sub)projects ... I am still very hopeful that we will be
>> integrating all the work so that in the end, "Ontologizing Ontolog"
>> will just be one big exercise.
>>
>> 5. Lastly, this conversation is useful and interesting, and should be
>> archived. I am taking the liberty (once again) to direct it to the
>> [ontologizing] list, and urge that we all continue the discussion via
>> that forum.
>>
>> Thanks & regards. =ppy
>> --
>
>
>> Bob Smith wrote Fri, 5 May 2006 08:15:23 -0700:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Good idea to make the inventory available to other teams.
>>>
>>> Keeping the "Context" explicit as much as possible is enabled by the
>>> full path url complemented by dates.
>>>
>>> Do any community issues surface from including CIM3 websites such as
>>> the Upper Ontology Preparations or the Ontology Implementation
>>> preparation files?
>>>
>>> For example, here is one item:
>>>
>>> http://colab.cim3.net/forum/
>>>
>>> (Blush... But I have not updated our own URL mission statement
>>> because of a local problem...which should be included in the next
>>> round, if
>>> possible)
>>>
>>> Peter, what are your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bob
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 7:26 AM
>>> To: Bob Smith
>>> Cc: Lisa Colvin; 'Peter P. Yim'
>>> Subject: RE: Status of the inventory
>>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Yes, because I get the full path url, as well as the specific file
>>> name and characteristics. We could create a single excel
>>> spreadsheet of
>> all relevant
>>> ontolog content, integrating from multiple site crawls. It occurs to
me
>>> that
>>> we can also hand this inventory over to the other teams working on
>> different
>>> approaches. The inventory might provide us with a basic test corpus
for
>> an
>>> ontology ontology.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Denise
>
>
>>> "Bob Smith"
>>>
>>> <Bob@1talltrees
>>>
>>> .com>
>>> To
>>> <dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Peter
P.
>>> Yim'"
>>> 05/05/2006 <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>, "Lisa Colvin"
>>>
>>> 10:11 AM <lisadawncolvin@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>
>>> cc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject
>>> RE: Status of the inventory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Denise, Peter;
>>>
>>> I can almost hear that chugging on the East Coast...
>>>
>>> If you run an inventory on other related sites, such as the Health
>>> Care site which has only a few (perhaps a dozen) Documents, is the
>>> fact that an item is from a different site noted in your inventory?
>>>
>>> Peter, do you have an expectation that more related sites are needed
>>> at this stage?
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>>
>>> Bob
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:35 AM
>>> To: Peter P. Yim; Bob Smith
>>> Subject: Status of the inventory
>>>
>>> Peter and Bob,
>>>
>>> Just to let you know the COAST inventory is still chugging along -
>>> it is
>> at
>>> level 6 and has inventoried about 51,000 items. I'm not sure that all
> of
>>> these
>>> are 'content rich' items. Once the inventory finishes, we can take a
>> quick
>>> look. We may want to rerun it and set a constraint not to go below a
>>> certain
>>> level in the tree, depending on what we find.
>>>
>>> This is probably the slowest part of the process -- it is fast
>>> against a shallow
>>> site or database. I am using the Coast Webmaster software to do this
>> work.
>>> If you want me to run inventories of other related sites, please
>>> send me
>> the
>>> url's. Any content that you want us to include in the ontologizing
>>> exercises.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Denise
>
>
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