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Re: [ontolog-forum] [ontology-summit] Invitation to a brainstorming call

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Matthew West" <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:28:07 -0000
Message-id: <4d0940ec.1ebdd80a.043b.6085@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear David,    (01)

At Peter's request I'm redirecting my response to the Ontolog Forum.    (02)

> On 12/15/2010 10:16 AM, Matthew West wrote:
> >
> > MW: Well if OWL was just an abstract syntax for these fragments I doubt
> > anyone would be half as excited. What I think causes a collective groan
> > amongst those that have been around for several decades in this space is
> > XML implementation on top of RDF. It is like inventing a square wheel
> > you have a round one sitting in the corner (SQL) and then layering
> > uncomfortably on top of it.
> Hi Matthew,
> It's hard to see how a standardized *Web* ontology language could have
> worked over SQL given the vendor lock-in strategy that's such a large
> part of the RDB market.     (03)

MW: My understanding is that at least some vendors are providing an RDF over
SQL capability, just that much of the SQL capability is not exposed thus.     (04)

> Perhaps it could have been done, but we might
> still be waiting for it to happen. However, at least that complaint is
> based in industrial reality. The XML complaint isn't unless John and
> others also hate UML or expect everyone to use one, and only one, UML
tool.    (05)

MW: Well as I think you know, I'm not a great fan of UML either. It is too
complex a diagramming convention to be able to remember what the symbols
mean for occasional users, which means it is of limited value when you are
trying to communicate to non-officianados.
> While the diagrams are nice, the normative UML interchange/computational
> format is XMI. Perhaps John and others are unaware of the failure of XMI
> for UML tools? I was shocked myself as I tried moving/processing
> UML/SysML models. At the OMG meeting where the model interchange group
> got started I made the statement that 'XMI is a complete failure in
> industry' and nobody, not even the UML vendors, could disagree. It's
> OMG's dirty little secret I guess. Humorously, a DOD guy banged his hand
> on the table in mock horror and read a prepared statement about DOD's
> requirement for OMG to fix this for UPDM. BTW UPDM testing still hasn't
> started and that meeting was 18 months ago. At least RDF/XML works and
> the W3C has improved the situation for those who dislike XML with
> turtle, etc. in OWL 2.    (06)

MW: Yes I think these options to OWL 2 at least give the possibility of a
human readable syntax.
> FWIW in our Semantic Web training we specifically talk about users with
> a DL focus vs. those that use software engineering practices to manage
> 'OWL Full', and more with SPIN/SPARQL, and less with RDF(S).  So at
> least 600+ potential users have been exposed to the fact that there's
> more than one way to use OWL and related languages. We do what we can ...    (07)

MW: It is no surprise to me that you would be doing something so useful.    (08)

Regards    (09)

Matthew West                            
Information  Junction
Tel: +44 560 302 3685
Mobile: +44 750 3385279
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/    (010)

This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England
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> Cheers,
> David
> --
> Principal Consultant
> TopQuadrant, Inc.
> US Phone +1 336-283-0606
> UK Mobile +44 7788 561308
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