From: Peter P. Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ontolog-forum] 'Publishing' and 'Distributing' on Ontolog [was - Re: Proceedings: "Database & Ontology" mini-seriesSession-10 - John Sowa - 12-Jul-2007]
Dear Azamat et al.,
Thank you very much for the clarification and the encouraging
words.
That said, I beg to differ on several of your suggestions, and
hope the following could help explain why we are doing things the
way we do them now.
1. Ontolog is meant to be a virtual "community of practice
(CoP)." For those unfamiliar with the notion of CoP's, it would
be helpful to check out our wiki page explanation at:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CommunityofPractice... we pretty much stick by John Seely Brown's idea of what a CoP
is and should be.
2. As such, Ontolog is *not* a research organization, standards
body, educational institution, publisher or any other similar
formal entity. This CoP is just another "drinking fountain
conversation" (or, as I usually put it, a conversation at the
tavern, after a day's work) by a bunch of folks passionate about
the subject, and
feel it important enough to volunteer their
time, effort, expertise and insight.
3. We operate on and is adamant about an "open" knowledge agenda
[1], and make our best attempt to discourage members from making
commercial or self-promoting innuendoes [2].
[1] see our IPR Policy at:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32[2] see:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidLMK4. Note that Ontolog is not funded by anyone. As such, we are not
answerable to anyone, except to our own professional integrity;
plus a few simple precepts (including those stated in 3 above)
that were established when the community came together [3].
[3] please refer to the Ontolog Charter at:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidB )
[ All of the above should be fairly clear to any individual
before they engage themselves as a member of the Ontolog
community. I cordially request that everyone take note to them,
if they were not clear before. ]
Now to answer you specifically:
> [AA] The forum needs to SYSTEMATIZE its work.
[ppy] I believe we are quite systematic in our approaches ...
but, intentionally, not to the extent as to stifle the free
spirit, open _expression_, and possible emergence of anything
innovative within our collaborative environment. Of course there
is always room for improvement, and member suggestions are always
solicited and taken seriously.
> [AA] ''To publish'' means to publish the whole
textual
> material of the coming lecturer.
[ppy] possibly so, if we were a research organization or
publisher etc. But, we aren't (see above). Our guest speakers,
first and foremost, are *guests* that we respect, and want to
hear from. Within the limits of our IPR policy, they decide what
they want to say (or not to say); and they, not us, *own* their
intellectual properties and insights (this is a basic in what we
mean by "open".) Some of our speakers do publish the whole
textual material, others don't. Either way, I believe we get
inspired by most of these people's presence, and benefit from
sharing their insight (which I think means a lot more than
printed papers.)
> [AA] ''To distribute'' means to distribute the matter among
> the members of the forum ...
[ppy] I believe we are already doing it, in multiple forms no
less (listserv
that allows different delivery modes, browser
accessible web content, archives, podcasts, ... etc.)
> [AA] instead of the digest-like stuff and defected
> audiomaterials.
[ppy] while the completeness or quality of these materials can
always be improved, I suggest you give a little appreciation to
the volunteers who had already spent a lot of their own time (and
money) putting those material together for consumption of the
community (and the rest of the world, in fact.) Additonal
expertise and volunteers are *always* welcome.
Please contact me off-line, anyone, or, just step up and say, I
will do this xxx or yyy. This is exactly how, for example, we are
doing podcast on every event now ... because someone volunteered
the expertise and effort. Anything one wants to see done around
here, the surest way to make it happen is to volunteer to do it.
> [AA] For
instance, i question a lot of John's theses mentioned
> in his slide, but can do it with a certainty unless the whole
> content or full text is read. Otherwise, i have to ask
> a lot of elucidating questions like Paola is trying to do it
> now.
[ppy] I'm sure you can e-mail John your questions privately, or
post them to [ontolog-forum] and try to get them answered. That's
your choice. I personally would encourage the latter. I think
one of the greatest value Ontolog can bring, is that, we all
learn from the open conversations that the Paolas and Johns have
over the forum ... (especially because the conversation is
archived and openly accessible too.)
You can ask him for more material (like some people did during
the discussion, etc.); but again, John, not Ontolog, decides on
how he responses.
Of course, if you don't think the conversation
would be of
interest to the wider community, then, please opt to keep it as a
private exchange, because hundreds of people's time wil be
consumed needlessly, otherwise.
> [AA] it is neccessary to avoid all the big organizational
> mistakes done by SUO and ONTAC
[ppy] I beg to differ. I think the SUO discussions were genuine
efforts that brought us to where we are today. The ONTAC
initiative is a very meaningful one, to say the least. While we
are operating on different premises from SUO or ONTAC, I hold my
highest respect for those communities and their conveners.
> [AA] I write this because believe you do a great work,
> which still can be better rationalized.
[ppy] Thanks you. I truly appreciate this ... and know full well
that you are writing because you cared. We, as a community, shall
continue to improve, so that
we won't let you (or anyone else in
the community who does care ... which I trust is plenty) down.
Sincerely. =ppy
--
Azamat wrote Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:30:45 +0300:
> Dear Peter,
>
> My message might have been too enigmatic. The forum needs to
> SYSTEMATIZE its work. ''To publish'' means to publish the whole textual
> material of the coming lecturer. ''To distribute'' means to distribute
> the matter among the members of the forum, instead of the digest-like
> stuff and defected audiomaterials. For instance, i question a lot of
> John's theses mentioned in his slide, but can do it with a certainty
> unless the whole content or full text is read. Otherwise, i have to ask
> a lot of elucidating questions like Paola is trying to do it now.
> I write this because believe you do a great work, which still can
> be
better rationalized.
> And it is neccessary to avoid all the big organizational mistakes done
> by SUO and ONTAC
>
> Best Wishes&Regards,
> Azamat Abdoullaev
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Peter Yim <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
> *To:* [ontolog-forum] <mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2007 9:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ontolog-forum] Proceedings: "Database & Ontology"
> mini-seriesSession-10 - John Sowa - 12-Jul-2007
>
> Dear Azamat,
>
> Good idea ... glad you are highlighting that.
>
> I hope we are already doing that ... as everything on these
session
> are openly "published" on our wiki, and everyone has a standing
> invitation to "discuss" them further (in addition to that discussion
> we had synchronously during the session.)
>
> Regards. =ppy
> --
> On 7/13/07, *Azamat* <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> Dear Peter,
> I do believe that John's and Matthew's talks could collect a
> huge crowd. But
> wouldn't be it more useful to publish and discuss all
the
> interesting
> materials of the Ontolog mini-series ''On Database and
> Ontology'' on the
> Ontolog forum to see if the contribution is a really ''key piece
> to the body
> of knowledge on ontology and ontological engineering''.
> Regards,
> Azamat Abdoullaev
> Paphos, Cyprus; Moscow, Russia
>
http://www.eis.com.cy> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>>
> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 1:21 AM
> Subject: [ontolog-forum] Proceedings: "Database & Ontology"
> mini-series
> Session-10 - John Sowa - 12-Jul-2007
>
>
> > We had, today, Thursday 12-July-2007, a huge crowd at our 10th
> > episode of the Ontolog mini-series on "Database and Ontology."
> > Co-chairs, Dr. Susie Stephens (Eli Lilly) and Dr. Matthew West
> > (Shell International Petroleum Co) presented our invited
> speaker,
> > the renowned Artificial Intelligence Research Scientist, Dr. John
> > Sowa, who presented a talk on "Analogical Reasoning With and
> > About Databases and
Knowledge Bases."
> >
> > Our deepest appreciations to Dr. Sowa, Dr. West and Dr. Stephens
> > for bringing us this brilliant session. Thanks are due, also to
> > Arun Majumdar, John's colleague from VivoMind Intelligence, who
> > did a lot of the technology implementations described in the
> > talk, and who also join us today and contributed his insights.
> > And, as always, thanks to all who could join us today;
especially
> > to those who contribution to the wonderful discussion toward the
> > last segment of the session.
> >
> > Proceedings of the session are captured on our wiki page, at:
> >
>
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_12> <
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_12>
> >
> > In particular, full audio recording of the session, as well as
> > the podcast of it, is now available - see:
> >
>
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_12#nid12B5> >
> > ... This contribution from Dr. Sowa and all
present today is
> > adding yet another key piece to the body of knowledge on
> ontology
> > and ontological engineering that our community is building
> > together. Thanks again, everyone!
> >
> > Best regards. =ppy
> >
> >
> > P.S. Note that the Ontolog community will be presenting a couple
> > of
panels next week (Tue Jul-17 & Wed Jul-18) at the
> > Collaborative Expedition Workshop #63 (organized by Susan
> > Turnbull et al.; to be held at NSF, Arlington, VA, USA). Do join
> > us there, either on-site or remotely. See details at:
> >
>
http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ExpeditionWorkshop/TowardsStabilityInInformationSharing_2007_07_17> <
http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ExpeditionWorkshop/TowardsStabilityInInformationSharing_2007_07_17>
> >
> > ... make sure you register for it as described on the session
> > page, if you are planning to attend.
> >
> > Because of the above event, there will be no conference call
> > during the regular Thursday time slot next
week.
> >
> > On Thu 26-Jul-2007, Dr. Bob Smith and Dr. Denise Bedford will be
> > co-chairing another OntologTaxoThesaurus project workshop during
> > the regular time slot. Please mark your calendars now.
> >
> > P.P.S. Watch our [ontolog-invitation] list for further
> > announcements of Ontolog events that may be of interest, or
> > browse the listing under the "News & Announcements" section
at
> > our Ontolog WikiHomePage (at:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidW ) for
> > the above and other upcoming events.
> >
> > An archive of noteworthy past Ontolog events can be found at:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidZ> >
> > Tx. =ppy
> > --
> >
> >
> > ========
> > Peter P. Yim wrote Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:20:16 -0700:
> > From: "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
>
> > To: ontolog-invitation@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:ontolog-invitation@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-invitation] "Database & Ontology"
> > mini-series Session-10
> > - John Sowa - 12-Jul-2007
> >
> >
> > Re:
>
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_12> >
> > *REMINDER*
> >
> > The Ontolog "Database & Ontology" mini-series invited talk by Dr.
> > John Sowa (VivoMind Intelligence, Inc.), on "Analogical Reasoning
> > With and About Databases and Knowledge Bases" is coming up this
> > Thursday 12-July-2007 (starting at 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT
/
> > 6:30pm BST / 17:30GMT/UTC).
> >
> > Come join the rest of the Ontolog community at this 10th episode
> > of the series, to be co-chaired by Dr. Matthew West (Shell
> > International Petroleum Co) and Dr. Susie Stephens (Eli Lilly),
> > during which we will be exploring the landscape, issues and
> > interactions between databases and ontologies through our invited
> > speaker's presentation. Dr. Sowa is one of the
most prolific and
> > outspoken individuals in the ontology, knowledge representation,
> > semantics and artificial intelligence communities, and has helped
> > shaped these fields as we know them today with some of his
> > brilliantly written work. I'm sure his talk will put a lot of
> > things about the subject matter in perspective, and inspire new
> > possibilities for the future.
> >
> > RSVP by e-mailing the
sender off-line (if you aren't already an
> > Ontolog member, kindly include your name, affiliation and job
> > title as well) if you are planning to attend and haven't already
> > responded.
> >
> > We look forward to having you at the session. Please refer to all
> > agenda and call-in details on the session page, whose link
> > appears at the top of this
message.
> >
> > Regards. =ppy
> > --
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Peter P. Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>>
> > To: ontolog-invitation@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
<mailto:ontolog-invitation@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 5:14:33 PM
> > Subject: [ontolog-invitation] "Database & Ontology"
> mini-series -
> > 3 upcoming events - Jun-28, Jul-5 & Jul-12 2007
> >
> >
> > ************************ Headlines ************************
> >
> > Ontolog "Database & Ontology" mini-series, upcoming
events
> over 3
> > consecutive Thursday sessions:
> >
> > *Thu 28 June 2007* - Dr. Souripriya Das and Dr. Melliyal
> > Annamalai from Oracle, on "Building Database Infrastructure for
> > Managing Semantic Data"
> >
> > *Thu 05 July 2007* - Mr. Chris Partridge from the BORO Centre,
> > UK, on "Data and process revisited: ontology driving a
paradigm
> > shift in the development of business application systems"
> >
> > *Thu 12 July 2007* - Dr. John Sowa from VivoMind Intelligence,on
> > "Analogical Reasoning With and About Databases and Knowledge
> Bases"
> >
> > Register your attendance by emailing < peter.yim@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>>
offline
> >
> > ******************** Details ************************
> >
> > Your are cordially invited to join us at the upcoming events of
> > the Ontolog "Database and Ontology" mini-series, championed by
> > Dr. Matthew West (Shell Petroleum Co.)
> >
> > The online Ontolog events are open and free of charge. Anyone who
> > is interested, or (better
still) who may have something to
> > contribute, is welcome. Refer to individual event details on
> > their respective session pages. The links are given below, where
> > you will find session agenda, presentation abstract and
> > conference call dial-in and other pertinent details .
> >
> > * Thursday, 28-Jun-2007 - We will be having the 8th Event in the
> > "Database And Ontology" Mini-Series - The session will be
> >
co-chaired by Dr. Matthew West and Dr. Susie Stephens. Dr.
> > Souripriya Das and Dr. Melliyal Annamalai from Oracle as their
> > invited speakers. They will be presenting on: "Building Database
> > Infrastructure for Managing Semantic Data". ... Please refer to
> > details at the session wiki page, at:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_06_28> >
> > * Thursday,
05-Jul-2007 - Dr. Matthew West will be presenting
> the
> > 9th Event in the "Database And Ontology" Mini-Series - Mr. Chris
> > Partridge from the BORO Center (UK) will be our invited speaker.
> > He will be giving a talk on "Data and process revisited:
> ontology
> > driving a paradigm shift in the development of business
> > application systems." ... Please refer to details, closer to the
> > time, at the session wiki page,
at:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_05> >
> > * Thursday, 12-Jul-2007 - Dr. Matthew West will be presenting the
> > 10th Event in the "Database And Ontology" Mini-Series - Dr. John
> > Sowa from VivoMind Intelligence will be our invited speaker and
> > will be giving a talk on: "Analogical Reasoning With and About
> > Databases and Knowledge Bases". Please
refer to details at the
> > session wiki page, at:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2007_07_12> >
> > *RSVP* by by emailing me at < peter.yim@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>> offline so that
> > we can prepare enough resources to support everyone. (Kindly
> > include your affiliation and job title if you aren't already
a
> > member of the Ontolog community.) Before participating, please
> > also make sure you are aware of our IPR policy (ref:
> >
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32> <
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32>).
> >
> > Regards.
=ppy
> >
> > Peter P. Yim Co-convener, Ontolog
> >
> > P.S. this new "announcement" format is suggested and designed by
> > Dr. Ken Baclawski in an effort to improve communication,
> > navigation and help maximize the impact of the message. Thank you
> > very much, Ken. =ppy
> >
--
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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