[ontolog] Member Conference Call - Thu 2004-10-28 (3SF)
Conference Call Details (3SG)
- Subject: [ontolog] member conference call Thu 2004-10-28 (3SH)
- Agenda Comments: (3SI)
- ... build rapport; ... sync up; ... distribute, assign or arbitrate virtual ownership of tasks; ... and use it to deal with emergencies. ... plus, member suggested agenda items. (3SJ)
- please post any suggested agenda items to the call wiki page and upload any material to be shared to the list, to the wiki or by WebDAV upload prior to the meeting (3SK)
- VNC session (if needed) will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ (3SL)
- Wiki page for this call is at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2004_10_28 (3SO)
- Date: Thursday, Oct. 28, 2004 (3SP)
- Start Time: 10:30 AM Pacific Standard Time (3SQ)
- End Time: 11:55 AM Pacific Standard Time (3SR)
- Dial-in Number: 1-702-851-3330 (Las Vegas, Nevada) (3SS)
- Participant Access Code: "0686564#" (3ST)
Attendees (3SU)
- Attended: (3SV)
- Expecting: (3T1)
- Regrets: (3T2)
Agenda Ideas (3T4)
- next steps, post [cctont] v0.4 release (3T5)
- MonicaMartin: still think SymbolicString does not clearly represent "Code. Type" (3T6)
Agenda & Proceedings (3T7)
1) Welcome & confirmation of agenda (3T8)
- PeterDenno took the chair and welcomed everyone. (3T9)
2) Appointment of secretary to take minutes (3TA)
3) Roll-call of participants (3TC)
4) Upcoming meeting & event schedule (near future) (3TE)
- suggested standing schedule (on a monthly basis): (3TF)
- Guest Speaker schedule: (3TK)
- ChrisMenzel - Thu Nov. 4, 2004 - confirmed (AdamPease) - tutorial on various families of logical languages (3TL)
- informal discussion, around SCL. (3TM)
- ChrisWelty (IBM) - Thu Nov. 18, 2004 - (BillMcCarthy / EvanWallace) - Chris will be calling in from Italy (3TN)
- MarkMusen - December 9, 2004 - confirmed (PeterYim) (3TO)
- future candidates - (3TP)
- MichaelUschold (EvanWallace will help check the possibilities with Mike) (3TQ)
- ConradBock (NIST) on UML2/OCL - Q1/2005 (PeterYim) (3TR)
- ChrisMenzel - Thu Nov. 4, 2004 - confirmed (AdamPease) - tutorial on various families of logical languages (3TL)
- planning for a joint SICoP-Ontolog-Health conference call as a continuation of our Joint SICoP-Ontolog ConferenceCall_2004_08_12 on the subject. - TBA - (PeterYim) (3TS)
- potential invitation of a joint SICoP-Ontolog presentation to the Environmental Health Thesaurus Forum (NIEHS/NIH/HHS) on Nov. 19, 2004. -- this is off now (strictly a face-to-face event in the DC area.) (3TT)
- updates on the Dec. 1. 2004 (Menlo Park) EDIX "Semantic Harmonization" presentation & panel (3TU)
- To be there: PeterYim, AdamPease, KurtConrad, LeoObrst (remote), SteveRay (remote), ... (add your name) - we need all the support we can get to make our case (3TV)
- (from JonBosak): You will need to register in advance at http://www.comptia.org/events/get_event.aspx?eventid=EIDX200412 (3TW)
- Use the promotional code CTIA1204 to waive the $550 conference fee (3TX)
- upcoming (in planning) - Dec. 9, 2004 - Susan / Brand's Collaborative Expedition Workshop on "All Things Ontological" (3TY)
5) Communications, logistics, & work protocols issues (3TZ)
- PeterYim reiterated the point (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2004-10/msg00037.html#nid05) that we are not here to critique on the standards, but to try to represent them in ontologies and in so doing introduce the ontological engineering methodology to the eBusiness standards development community. (3U0)
6) Follow-ups from previous calls (3U1)
- n/a (3U2)
7) Current Project Status Report (3U3)
- Status of Protege-KIF project work (3U4)
- item not covered as PatCassidy is not at the call. (3U5)
- Status CCT-Representation and UBL-Ontology project work (3U6)
- Requirements issues (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UseCases) (3U7)
- Formalization issues (3U8)
- UBL Liaison update (3U9)
- [CCT-Rep] status report (3UA)
8) CctRepresentation project work session (3UE)
- The following has been transferred over from our last call - we could continue where we left off. (3UF)
- (3UG)
- [CCT-Rep] draft near-term work plan: (--proposed by: PeterYim / 2004.09.30; updated: ppy/2004.10.07; ppy/2004.10.14; ppy/2004.10.28) (3UH)
- (dates indicated represent our weekly call date; task description(s) covers work expected to be started/done during a specific call, and completed/reviewed during the immediate following week, prior to the next call.) (3UI)
- Thu 2004.09.30 - (i) closure of [cctont] draft, and its release for comments; (ii) initiate collection of input for "lessons learned" and appropriate feedback that we could provide to the standards development colleagues. (see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid0134) (3UJ)
- Thu 2004.10.07 - adopt workplan, confirm commitments, continuation of last week's tasks (3UK)
- Thu 2004.10.14 - (i) review comments and fine tune [cctont]; (ii) import [cctont] with ProtegeKIF tool; (iii) discuss and initiate mapping/translation tasks (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid0136) (iv) discuss title and key topics/contents for the whitepaper that we are going to publish (3UL)
- Thu 2004.10.21 - (i) review first set of mapping results; (ii) start drafting the "Paper(s)" (3UM)
- Thu 2004.10.26 - Ontolog invited speaker session - MarkPalmer on eBSC (3UN)
- Thu 2004.10.28 - (i) 2nd review of mapping results; add mapping to a higher level CC element (ii) continue drafting the "Paper"; get consensus on the table of content. (3UO)
- Thu 2004.11.04 - Ontolog invited speaker session - ChrisMenzel (3UP)
- Thu 2004.11.11 - (i) final review of mapping results; (ii) finalize "Paper(s)"; (iii) identify the presenter(s) for the EIDX panel; (iv) start drafting the "Semantic Harmonisation" presentation. (3UQ)
- Thu 2004.11.18 - Ontolog invited speaker session - ChrisWelty (3UR)
- Thu 2004.11.25 - review and finalize "Semantic Harmonisation" presentation (3US)
- Wed 2004.12.01 - EIDX "Semantic Harmonisation" Panel Presentation - (2~5pm, Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, CA) (3UT)
- [CCT-Rep] draft near-term work plan: (--proposed by: PeterYim / 2004.09.30; updated: ppy/2004.10.07; ppy/2004.10.14; ppy/2004.10.28) (3UH)
- (3UU)
- The "Input" pages - for helping us put together our collective insight and recommendations: (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid040) (3UV)
- Feedback, Comments, Suggestions for the CCT-Representaion project work: CctRepresentation/CctRep_Feedback (3UW)
- this is for collecting feedback from the team, the ontolog community, the e-business standards development community, and the public at large to the CCT-Ontology development team (i.e. for incoming feedback, from ontolog's perspective) to collaboratively improve on the quality and relevance of this work. (3UX)
- Draft Feedback and Recommendations for other eBusiness Standards Working Groups: CctRepresentation/CctRep_Recommendation (3UY)
- this is in preparation for the compilation of position paper(s) that the CCT-Representation project team and the Ontolog community can present to the various e-business standards development bodies (i.e. for outgoinging feedback, from ontolog's perspective) that will include (but not limited to) learnings and recommendations as a result of this work. (3UZ)
- a Business Case section has been added to the CctRepresentation/CctRep_Recommendation page to capture inputs to build up the arguments for supporting our ontological engineering (semantic technologies) approach. (--ppy/2004.10.14) (3V0)
- Feedback, Comments, Suggestions for the CCT-Representaion project work: CctRepresentation/CctRep_Feedback (3UW)
- The "Input" pages - for helping us put together our collective insight and recommendations: (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid040) (3UV)
- (3V1)
- see [cctont] draft v0.4 at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/ontology/UBLONT/CCTONT-worksheet-v0-4.html (3V2)
- (3V3)
- Kurt will make a post to solicit an operational definition of "Semantic Harmonization" - still oustanding (3V4)
- MonicaMartin: still think SymbolicString does not clearly represent "Code. Type" (3V5)
- PeterDenno: mapping to an ontology as a conformance tool (3V6)
- PeterDenno: are we trying to show that: (3V7)
- MonicaMartin: the CCSD primer should be helpful (3VB)
- will send document over, and have it posted on the wiki for people's reference (--done. see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid0169) (3VC)
- AlanStitzer to help make sure this is the latest document (3VD)
- will send document over, and have it posted on the wiki for people's reference (--done. see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation#nid0169) (3VC)
- AlanStitzer: maybe we should map BCC's or some higher level element (which are more tangible) (3VE)
- candidate higher level element that we could do an exercise on: (3VF)
- "Goods. Delivery. Date Time" (3VG)
- PeterDenno: possibly suggest a different one; something about shipping, maybe (3VH)
- candidate higher level element that we could do an exercise on: (3VF)
- PeterDenno and AdamPease will confer offline to get the above exercise going (3VI)
- PeterDenno posted a more extensive recap of the discussion (ref: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2004-10/msg00041.html) as follows: (3VJ)
... we stepped back a bit to consider what the goal of the CCT mapping effort should be. The way I understand it, we discussed something like the following three perspectives' on what might be accomplished by this effort, and we agreed to work on something that is a combination of Perspective 2 and Perspective 3, below. (3VK)
Monica Martin will provide an example and Adam Pease and I will discuss the approach in more detail in email to this group. (3VL)
If you think this doesn't capture today's meeting, or you missed the meeting and think we are headed in the wrong direction, please comment. I'm sure I didn't do a perfect job of capturing the meeting. (3VM)
- (3VN)
- PERSPECTIVE 1: The goal of the CCT/ontology mapping effort is to show how the CCTs can be described by similar concepts in a SUMO-based CCT-ontology. (3VO)
This is closest to where the effort is now. Our early investigation suggests there isn't a one-one mapping between CCT concept and SUMO-based CCT-ontology concept. After some email discussion yesterday, the participants seemed to all agree that this was going to be a difficult path. Considering Code.Type particularly, a few of us felt that the current mapping -- simply to SymbolicString -- was not sufficient. A few us (I'm in both groups) also felt that the spec was not clear enough to do a better job. (3VP)
Nonetheless, this exercise demonstrated one thing we could accomplish by the mapping exercise: we could use it to identify problems with the specification. For example, at my urging, Adam suggested a constraint on Code.Type such that it not reference something of type &%Physical. It was later determined that the CCT spec didn't really intend that constraint. (3VQ)
This approach taken to extreme might produce an ontology-based conformance checking tool for the CCTs. That would be interesting, but it is a very ambitious goal. (3VR)
- (3VS)
- PERSPECTIVE 2: The goal of the CCT/ontology mapping effort is to use a SUMO-based CCT-ontology to produce a meta-model similar in structure to what is described in the CCT spec. In doing so, we capture some of the purpose of the CCTs. (3VT)
Figure 6-1 from the spec would provide some input to this approach. In this work we would start with the 1-1 mapping of concepts that we have now, but add some of the relationship such as depicted in Figure 6-1, and whatever else we might learn from the CCT spec. (3VU)
Alan Stitzer thought that if we were to go this route, we'd be better off looking at the BCCs, since they are more tangible. (3VV)
Adam express concern that the spec may not provide enough guidance to do this. (3VW)
- (3VX)
- PERSPECTIVE 3: The goal of the CCT/ontology mapping effort is to show how a SUMO-based CCT-ontology can be used accomplish some of the goals of the CCTs, using some of the fundamental concepts of the CCTs. (3VY)
The goals, as described in section 4.5 of the specification include: (3VZ)
Peter Yim pointed suggested that this too was much too large an effort and suggested that we concentrate on a single BCC. (3W8)
Monica Martin suggested that we look at the CCT Primer and particularly the example "Goods. Delivery. Date Time" (3W9)
I suggested that maybe it would be useful to use the Primer example as a guide, but more instructive to look at something such as INCOTERMS 2000 (shipping codes) since DateTime may cause us to concentrate (misdirect?) our effort on the structural (implementation?) issues of describing a DateTime item in ISO 8601 format. ...But the details here can be worked out later, after we see the example that Monica is providing. (3WA)
The idea in this perspective might be to classify kinds of code types, and model a few salient aspects of them. For example we might model the notions of Cost and Risk as used in INCOTERMS, (that just an example, I don't intend to say we should go with INCOTERMS). Most of the notions we'd model would parallel things in CCTs. The effort would try to provide a compelling argument for using the ontology to record differences in business semantics -- this done as part of a methodology for constructing messages types. This is a goal of the CCTs. (3WB)
9) New project proposals (3WC)
- item not covered in this call (3WD)
10) Sponsorship and funding (3WE)
- item not covered in this call (3WF)
11) Other business (3WG)
- item not covered in this call (3WH)
12) Next meeting date and adjourn (3WI)
- call adjourned 12:10pm PDT (3WJ)
- next call will be on Thu 2004.11.04 starting at 10:30am PDT - ChrisMenzel will be speaking to us on "SCL" (3WK)
-- minutes captured in real time on this wiki by PeterYim ppy / 2004.10.28 12:11pm PDT additioal input from: PeterDenno / 2004.10.28 6:20pm EDT (3WL)