ppy/OntologySummit2014-postmortem_chat-transcript_unedited_20140515a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: summit_20140515 2014-05-15 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [8:44] PeterYim: . [8:51] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologySummit2014: Review and Follow-up Action Planning ("postmortem") Session - Thu 2014-05-15 = Summit Theme: OntologySummit2014: "Big Data and Semantic Web Meet Applied Ontology" Session Topic: "Postmortem" - Review and Follow-up Action Planning Session Session Co-chairs: Professor MichaelGruninger and Dr. LeoObrst AGENDA: 1. Summary and Reflections on OntologySummit2014 - General Co-chairs: MichaelGruninger & LeoObrst 2. Summary and Reflections on the OntologySummit2014_Symposium - Sumposium co-chairs: RamSriram & TimFinin 3. OntologySummit2014 and OntologySummit(s) in Numbers & Charts - PeterYim & AmandaVizedom 4. Open Discussion-I: postmortem and follow-ups for OntologySummit2014 - All 5. Open Discussion-II: Ideas and suggestion for our next OntologySummit - All 6. AOB / Actions Items / Wrap-up - session co-chairs: LeoObrst & MichaelGruninger Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_05_15 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName; also please enable "Show timestamps" while there. * Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Attn: Skype users ... see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_05_15#nid4DD0 ** you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.) ** if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184# ** Can't find Skype Dial pad? *** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" *** for Linux Skype users: if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it * when posting in this Chat-room, kindly observe the following ... ** whenever a name is used, please use the full WikiWord name format (every time you don't, some volunteer will have to make an edit afterwards) ** always provide context (like: "[ref. JaneDoe's slide#12], I think the point about context is great" ... rather than "that's great!" as the latter would mean very little in the archives.) ** when responding to a specific individual's earlier remarks, please cite his/her full WikiWord names *and* the timestamp (in PST) of his/her post that you are responding to (e.g. "@JaneDoe [11:09] - I agree, but, ...") ** use fully qualified url's (include http:// ) without symbols (like punctuations or parentheses, etc.) right before of after that URL . == Proceedings == . [8:24] anonymous morphed into Rokan [9:34] AmandaVizedom1 morphed into AmandaVizedom [9:34] anonymous morphed into Brand Niemann [9:38] Ram D. Sriram: I am here, but I guess I am muted [9:39] LeoObrst: Ram: *7 [9:39] PeterYim: == MichaelGruninger starts session on behalf of the co-chairs ... see slides under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_05_15#nid4DET [9:44] anonymous morphed into Beth DiGiulian [9:45] Brand Niemann: You did engage the 200_ members of the Federal Big Data Working Group Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/Federal-Big-Data-Working-Group/ and I prepared input to your review and action planning session today. [9:47] List of members: Alan Rector, AmandaVizedom, AndreaWesterinen, Beth DiGiulian, Brand Niemann, LeoObrst, MarcelaVegetti, MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, MikeDean, NaicongLi, PeterYim, Ram D. Sriram, SundayOjo, TerryLongstreth, TimFinin, ToddSchneider, vnc2 [9:48] LeoObrst: More generally: What were the successful aspects of Ontology Summit 2014? What wasn't so successful? And how should we change these for Ontology Summit 2015? What do we need to add? [9:48] Brand Niemann: You might consider becoming a Meetup: Theworld's largest network of local groupsto revitalize local community and help people around the world self-organize like MOOCs (Massive Open On-line Classes) being considered by theWhite House. The Meetup.com collaboration environment is very inexpensive. [9:49] ToddSchneider: Successful: Engaged a wider audience. [9:49] PeterYim: @Chairs - we have 23 on the conference bridge now, but only 19 on the chat now ... (when you have a chance) please prompt those folks to join us in the chat-room [9:50] ToddSchneider: Not so Successful: Didn't engage the targeted communities to the extent expected. [9:51] ChristophLange: Sorry for joining late; now catching up with the chat [9:52] ToddSchneider: Should extend communique endorsements until at least the beginning of June. [9:52] anonymous morphed into CarolBean [9:52] AmandaVizedom: Last year's extension of endorsement period was partly intended to allow endorsements after presentation at SemTech. Do same for Ram's talk? [9:53] ToddSchneider: Amanda, definitely. [9:54] PeterYim: == The Symposium Co-chairs, TimFinin & RamSriram, making some remarks to reflect on the OntologySummit2014_Symposium [9:55] TerryLongstreth: MichaelGruninger slide 6: should mention topic of availability of entrylevel training - I believe part of the tension Michael mentions stems from lack of common baselines. May need to explain dichotomy of ontology for human consumption/communication vs. machine (essentially, an ontology as a computer program). [9:56] MikeBennett: @Terry +1 it feels that most available training material assumes that whichever aspect of this is of interest to the trainer, is all there is. I may be being unfair there! [9:58] PeterYim: [pertinent to the remarks being made] see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014_Symposium [9:58] LeoObrst: @[12:55] TerryLongstreth: the IAOA SWAO SIG chairs have proposed a joint effort with the IAOA Education Committee to provide a set of tutorials on ontologies, best practices for ontological engineering, etc. -- and probably to be hosted on the IAOA web site, and thus be open to all. [10:01] Brand Niemann: We have scheduled tutorials on ontologies and best practices for ontological engineering for our June 2nd Meetup [10:01] PeterYim: kudos to ChristiKapp for the HUGE amount of work (and the quality she attained) in post-processing the OntologySummit2014_Symposium material (especially the audio archives) ... see that on the Symposium page under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014_Symposium#nid482S [10:02] SundayOjo: These three could be viewed as different levels of abstraction of same application domain semantics. [10:04] MikeBennett: @Sunday indeed. Or separation of concerns, framed in terms of software development methodologies. One workshop I have been involved with in the past focuses on use of ontologies as "Conceptual Models" (in one sense of that word) for example. So I think we are saying this an area of thinking that can be further developed and taken forward :) [10:04] PeterYim: also thanks to RamSriram for sharing with us the pictures, and a few video clips he captured during the Symposium [10:04] ToddSchneider: Brand, could provide the location of the 2 June MeetUp (for the DMV participants). [10:05] MichaelGruninger: RamSriram's idea: poster session at the Symposium [10:06] PeterYim: == PeterYim presenting on "OntologySummit2014 and OntologySummit(s) in Numbers" ... [10:08] Brand Niemann: 8405 Greensboro Dr., Suite 930, McLean, VA 22102 and see details at: http://www.meetup.com/Federal-Big-Data-Working-Group/ [10:12] AmandaVizedom: FWIW, I think that the Co-sponsors role experienced some shift in meaning from last year. [10:15] AmandaVizedom: Comment on PeterYim's slide 10: Personally, my focus is on Advancement, rather than Promotion, but I think that Advancement *requires* outreach - our conversations need to continue to diversify. [10:16] PeterYim: == AmandaVizedom presenting on "OntologySummit2014 Analytics: some charts from Social Media" ... [10:17] LeoObrst: @[13:06] PeterYim's presentation (slide 10): Dedication of contributors: this will be more important next year, when we will not have Peter's great support. [10:20] TimFinin: I suggested on the phone that we might try to present an overview of the Ontology Summit (History and latest activities) at AAAI-15 (http://bit.ly/15Aaai, Austin TX, Jan 25-29), perhaps based on a senior member track summary paper (http://bit.ly/1lkc5cd) or an invitation from the AI and the Web track (co-chaired by Pascal Hitzler) [10:22] ChristophLange: Summary of my input: it's difficult to strike a balance between making co-organizers aware that their "continuous" (not exactly, but pretty much) commitment throughout the summit "season" is needed, and between still keeping it attractive for newcomers to join the organization team. There were several occasions where I had not exactly been aware that another input (usually slides reporting on something) were due. It was all in Peter's emails but sometimes had escaped my attention. But don't get me wrong, I enjoyed very much being a first-time track champion. [10:26] MikeBennett: @Christoph [10:22] that's how it more or less is for all of us. I sometimes think we would not get as much done if we realized in advance what we were getting ourselves into. Peter has always struck the ideal balance of encouraging, expecting and patiently awaiting stuff. [10:26] MatthewWest: Sorry, arrived late, now leaving early. [10:27] PeterYim: == Open Discussion-I: postmortem and follow-ups for OntologySummit2014 - All [10:27] AmandaVizedom: As of this momment, Ontology Summit 2014 on Google+ has 72 followers and 5,403 views on its posts. [10:27] PeterYim: [9:48] LeoObrst: More generally: What were the successful aspects of Ontology Summit 2014? What wasn't so successful? And how should we change these for Ontology Summit 2015? What do we need to add? [10:28] MichaelGruninger: ===== What were the successful aspects of the Tracks? [10:31] AmandaVizedom: Good responsiveness of Track content to community input and ongoing conversations. [10:32] AmandaVizedom: I agree with Michael: Tracks did good job with synthesis this year. [10:33] MichaelGruninger: Track champions did a great job of synthesis [10:34] PeterYim: MatthewWest: [input via an earlier email] I thought the summit was good, illustrating the value of/need for lightweight approaches to ontology. Our track, Track C - Bottlenecks, struggled a bit because of how diverse the track turned out to be. [10:35] AmandaVizedom: The tracks were more coherent and useful to overall picture this year than last. That's not a dig at last year's track leads. It may be more a lesson in the consequences of how tracks are divided and defined. Last year's track boundaries turned out not to be so clear, this year's were better. [10:35] anonymous morphed into FrancescaQuattri [10:36] MarcelaVegetti: AmandaVizedom [14:35] +1 [10:36] Brand Niemann: I want to give praise for the keynotes since I have to leave and thought they were the most valuable to the Big Data Community I am involved with as follows: I have followed up with all four of your principal speakers to their requests for additional information on our work as follows: George Strawn: Research objects as digital objects: http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/Big_Data_Science_for_CODATA/Data_Science_Journal and http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/Data_Science_for_VIVO Farnam Jahanian: NSF Big Data Publications: http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/NSF_Big_Data_Publications#Story and http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/NSF_Funding_Opportunities_in_Data_Science Phil Bourne: Data Publications in Data Browsers: http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/Data_Culture_at_the_NIH Dan Kaufman (and Paul Cohen): June 2nd Meetup on Reading & Reasoning with Semantic Insights for the DARPA Big Mechanism: http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/A_Data_Science_Big_Mechanism_for_DARPA#Story George challenged us to find another (Semantic Medline on YarcData being the first) best practice example of Big Data and Semantic Web Meet Applied Ontology, or as we like to say Big Data with Semantic Web and Applied Ontology. The one we selected is the new Climate Change Impacts in the United States Report and Web Site, which also happens to be for his boss John Holdren, the Presidents Science Advisor! Our work in progress is at: http://semanticommunity.info/Data_Science/Data_Science_for_Climate_Change#Story This is certainly Big Data and use of the Semantic Web and Applied Ontology: http://data.globalchange.gov/resources, which we are building on to make this a Data Publication in a Data Browser. This work is the subject of future Meetups and we hope there are future Applied Ontology Summits on this subject: Big Data with Semantic Web and Applied Ontology. [10:37] anonymous morphed into FrancescaQuattri1 [10:37] MichaelGruninger: ===== What went well with the Communique? [10:38] ChristophLange: Collaborative commenting in Google Docs worked well. [10:38] Ram D. Sriram1: I would like to reiterate Tim's comments on the tracks, i.e., it would be nice to have a summary insight on each track. [10:38] PeterYim: I personally think that this is the best communique we have had so far [10:39] ToddSchneider: I think Leo and Michael did a very nice job of weaving the materials from the tracks into a coherent story. [10:39] Beth DiGiulian: I was amazed at how quickly the Communique was compiled and ready for distribution. Great job. [10:40] AndreaWesterinen: I felt that the communique reflected Track A's synthesis, not as a copy but as a continuation and incorporation of our thinking. Also, the ability to contribute to the communique, cooperatively, was great. [10:43] ChristophLange: Summary of my point: where track champions "synthesize" specific points from panelists' presentations into the communique, I'd say the track champions assume responsibility for, at least, the factual correctness of these citations. They should also give the panelists (plus, as appropriate, other community members) the chance to review the synthesis before it's finalized. [10:43] AmandaVizedom: ++ for PeterYim's point: It is very important, and should be clear that track champions will be responsible for engaging speakers in their areas. [10:43] MichaelGruninger: ===== What went well with the Hackathon? [10:44] PeterYim: @[10:43] AmandaVizedom ... which was the point made by ChristophLange, but also useful and important that track champions will be responsible for engaging the communities that revolves around their track focus [10:47] Ram D. Sriram: Hackathons were great, but it would have been better if we had a strong connection to the theme of the summit. [10:47] MichaelGruninger: ===== How can we improve the Hackathon? [10:47] AmandaVizedom: Good thing: Hackathon did bring in a wider spread of people ... true of some other aspects of summit as well [10:48] AmandaVizedom: Less good: Not SW / BD - driven as much as would have been good. [10:49] AndreaWesterinen: Good thing: Some of the hackathon subjects were directly related to the subject of the Summit. [10:50] AmandaVizedom: Good thing: we engaged more people in the hackathon, and summit generally, including people outside of the applied ontology core. [10:50] PeterYim: a couple of personal regrets were that we weren't able to involve IBM:Watson and Google:knowledge-graph or schema.org work into the hackathons (both of which actually would have lend themselves well to such activities) ... we tried [10:51] TerryLongstreth: @[13:47] Ram D. Sriram - beyond adhering to the theme, encourage greater participation of H-actors with other parts of summit. [10:52] AndreaWesterinen: Less bad: Some of the hackathon projects were not really related to the subject of the Summit. This might have splintered the participants, detracting from the more subject-oriented projects. [10:53] MikeBennett: @Andrea agreed, but as a counter to that we did have someone come on to our Hackathon who had been on one of the other hackathons - so it might be a good means to get people engaged? [10:54] AmandaVizedom: Less good: That engagement wasn't that deep. It didn't drive as much as we would have liked. The projects weren't so much framed by the experiences of people who were first and formost BD / SW users / consumers of ontologies. [10:54] LeoObrst: More direct connection of individual hackathons to specific tracks? Or not? [10:54] MichaelGruninger: We might want to start Hackathon planning as soon as the Tracks are determined [10:54] MikeBennett: I agree with Michael's idea to start planning and thinking of themes for Hackathon alongside the tracks i.e. at the beginning - rather than treating it as a "track" in its own right. Would help better alignment to the overall Summit themes without necessarily need to align 1:1 with actual tracks. [10:54] AndreaWesterinen: @LeoO [xx:54] +1 although cross-track is also very valuable. [10:56] MichaelGruninger: ==== What well with the website, mailing list, and other online resources? [10:56] AndreaWesterinen: @MikeB [xx:53] Your experience could enforce my point since you might have had additional participation from the beginning. :-) [10:57] MikeBennett: @Andrea 10:56 maybe - but this was someone from Russia who might not have known of the Summit other than through having participated in the Hackathon over there? It might work both ways I think. We should certainly think of the hackthons as part of the engagement model, but make the topics more focused on the Summit themes. [10:58] ChristophLange: connection dropping; will continue typing [10:58] AndreaWesterinen: @MikeB [xx:57] +1 [10:58] ChristophLange: @others, please go ahead [10:59] AmandaVizedom: It would be extremely valuable to have hackathon co-organizer(s) who are deeply in the partner communities *and* have time and desire to be very active about bringing those communities insights and efforts into play. [10:59] FrancescaQuattri1: One thing that could maybe be addressed is how to better manage the email flow that the Summit brings with it every year. I remember Peter when he mentioned to us that actually a lot of Association members do ask to be put off the list due to that overflow [11:00] PeterYim: I still think the "community library" notion was good (I disagree with Amanda about it not being "worth it") ... the later contribution from JeiBao & LiDing, their automated aggregation (ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2014-05/msg00005.html ) if combined with the Zotero library would be great! [11:00] ChristophLange: In the beginning I had a hard time finding my way on the http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014/GettingOrganized page. There was a lot of content, for example, IIRC, two sections with schedules of phone calls, one tentative, one more concrete. I do agree with PeterYim's point that old content should be archived, but I found it hard to see "the latest state of affairs" at a glance. OTOH I'm sure this comment will soon be obsolete with PSMW. [11:01] AndreaWesterinen: Perhaps have a dedicated person to add links to the library. As a track co-chair, I ran out of time to update the library. [11:01] AmandaVizedom: RE: AndreaWesterenin's specific thought about other people sending emails or sending links or heads-up to a dedicated library maintainer: I did request that, at an early point, both last year and this year (before switching roles). It didn't happen. [11:01] MikeBennett: I agree that the Library was a Good Thing - based on last year's experience. The issue this year was that although it is quite easy to use, none of us had quite the bandwidth to think of going there and putting things in it. Maybe whoever is the full time web person should also keep the Library afloat. [11:02] ChristophLange: I was done anyway; I typed what I wanted to say at [20:00] [11:02] TimFinin: I'll have to drop off for a meeting. Tim [11:04] FrancescaQuattri1: maybe people kind of feel discouraged or overwhelmed by that amount of emails coming in daily [11:04] PeterYim: @[11:01] AndreaWesterinen - +1 [11:04] TerryLongstreth: I agree with Amanda's point that the populating of libraries should be part of the process of creating material for the summit; whether presentations, reports, hackathon results or ancillary material. [11:05] Beth DiGiulian: I have to drop off as well. Just want to say that I found the Summit to be extremely well run. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." You had great key notes, good community involvement, clear agendas, good summaries. To me, more explanation about the goals for outcomes of the summit would be good, and you are correct - encourage birds of a feather sessions and consider poster sessions. Thanks! [11:06] AmandaVizedom: IMHO, it would make a big difference if we had all of our online resource infrastructure in place before the Summit launch. Working on it and/or shifting it while underway uses a lot of resources (i.e., takes resources that might be going into the live-action content of the summit) and confuses people. [11:06] PeterYim: @[11:05] Beth DiGiulian - Thanks, Beth [11:07] MichaelGruninger: ==== What can we add to the Summit to improve it? [11:07] AmandaVizedom: General Note: LaurentLefort could not make today's session, but provided input via a Google+ post, which can be found here: https://plus.google.com/+LaurentLefort/posts/dwaMCcpH7Tp [11:09] MikeBennett: Not sure how to address this but it's hard to estimate how Peter manages to motivate people to do things e.g. I wasn't going to even do a hackathon. We need some new mechanism for communicating expectations and encouragement to participants who are generally working on a hundred other things. [11:10] Ram D. Sriram: I like Leo's idea of putting together a book volume, with additional web pointers. [11:11] Ram D. Sriram: I am logging off. [11:14] LeoObrst: Additional products for the Ontology Summit? E.g., the IAOA SWAO SIG hopes to continue the themes of this Summit beyond the AO article. Perhaps a dedicated issue of a journal with the themes of the summit, i.e., invite everyone to submit papers addressing aspects of the themes? Perhaps a follow-on book? Why? Because the Ontology Summit involves such a huge amount of input by very many people that it is a shame to not enable the contributions to be refined/elaborated into a larger snapshot. [11:15] MikeBennett: @Leo xx:14 +1 to that idea - will be good to get presenters and others involved to submit short papers building on what they presented, hacked etc. [11:18] PeterYim: I like Todd's idea of doing the book as part of the next summit, but also agree with Michael that writing a book with a "crowd" is just daunting ... how about a small number of people starts writing the book and get it to a stage that we can engage the Summit community to review/critique/improve/get-buyin on that, to result in the "definitive book on Ontology Engineering" as the deliverable [11:20] MikeBennett: Sorry folks I have to drop off now. [11:20] AndreaWesterinen: @All Since we have previously discussed the time commitments involved in participating in the Summit, how do we reconcile that with writing/reviewing/editing papers? [11:20] ToddSchneider: Peter, could the small crowd be the IAOA SIG? [11:21] AmandaVizedom: + For Book idea: a main shortcoming of most instructional materials, overviews, and tutorials out there is that they are *either* over-fitted to a specific use (without documenting that or how it affects things) *or* they are so high level as to make practical application difficult. Well-focused critical interaction of the sort the Summit can offer is very good for exorcizing those sorts of problems. [I do agree, also, that the project is quite daunting.] [11:21] PeterYim: sure ... I could imagine an optional "small crowd" to be the size of 1 to 3" though (not a committee) ... but that's for IAOA (or the SIG) to say [11:22] PeterYim: MichaelGruninger: ==== possible topics for Next Year [11:24] LeoObrst: Thought: given the range of our past Ontology Summit themes, could consider a chapter of a book on ontological engineering on each theme. [11:24] ToddSchneider: Peter, I've found no evidence that IBM is looking for ontologists (as a full time position). [11:25] PeterYim: not just the text book, but the "education" that is needed to train enough "good ontologists" [11:25] PeterYim: @Todd: my "IBM looking for ontologists" is only a metaphor [11:26] PeterYim: MichaelGruninger / LeoObrst: ==== extending the Communique Endorsement deadline [11:27] ToddSchneider: No objections: Extend to at least 1 June 2014. [11:27] LeoObrst: Extend the date for Communique endorsements? Next steps for planning the future. [11:30] AmandaVizedom: Suggestion: Not just mailing lists. Post the solicitation for endorsements also to SW/ big data / ontology related groups on LinkedIn, Google+, etc. [11:31] ToddSchneider: 15 June is okay. [11:32] AndreaWesterinen: 15 June is okay. [11:32] TerryLongstreth: Make it two weeks afer Ram presents [11:32] ChristophLange: @AmandaVizedom [xx:21]: What makes it difficult to write a practical book about ontology engineering in general is the variety of ontology _languages_. I guess we wouldn't want to limit ourselves to, say, OWL. But a proper introduction of a _few_ relevant languages (e.g., CL, too) is challenging. Also it's a question how much of the logics background to include. [11:33] PeterYim: [action] LeoObrst will make another round of Communique Endorsement solicitations to the suite of lists that he posts [11:33] PeterYim: fyi Ram's presentation - ASE Conference on Big Data Science and Computing is May 27~31 at Stanford, CA [11:36] MichaelGruninger: First meeting for the Organizing Committee of Ontology Summit 2015 will be October 2, 2014 [11:36] AmandaVizedom: ChristophLange [14:32] It is certainly too much to cover all languages. There are editorial decisions to be made. And some will have to be tentatively made ahead of time, to be potentially shredded and re-made but summit folks. But considerable fundamentals can be introduced prior to introduction of any languages, then illustrated in several, for example. [11:37] PeterYim: great session! [11:37] ChristophLange: Thank you all, and thanks PeterYim once more for running this summit! [11:37] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:34am PDT -- [11:37] AndreaWesterinen: Yes, thank you for a great summit. [11:37] List of attendees: Alan Rector, AmandaVizedom, AmandaVizedom1, AndreaWesterinen, Beth DiGiulian, Brand Niemann, CarolBean, ChristophLange, EdBernot, FrancescaQuattri, FrancescaQuattri1, HensonGraves, LeoObrst, MarcelaVegetti, MatthewWest, MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, MikeDean, NaicongLi, PeterYim, Ram D. Sriram, Ram D. Sriram1, Rokan, SundayOjo, TerryLongstreth, TimFinin, ToddSchneider, anonymous, vnc2 ------