ppy/OntologySummit2013_hc-04_chat-transcript_unedited_20130406a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: hc-04 2013-04-06 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [5:59] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologySummit2013 Hackathon & Clinics - Day-2 Activities - Sat 2013.04.06 = This is the chat-rom for: HC-04 * Dial-in for the "Open Webcast" segments of ALL Projects (ref. time schedule below) ** Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... Conference ID: 141184# ; or ** Skype: joinconference ... Conference ID: 141184# * Project HC-04. OntologySummit2013 Content Hack: Leveraging Semantics on OntologPSMW ** Kick-off and Open webcast segment - 1 Hr. 45 min. (est.) *** starting: Sat 2013.04.06 - 6:00am PDT / 9:00am EDT / 10:00am Argentina / 3:00pm CEST / 13:00 UTC *** Project Homepage: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack *** Project chat-room (up when in session): http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/hc-04 Logistics: * Refer to details on Hackathon_Clinics homepage at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName (in WikiWord format) * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: it may be under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later or the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. * Note: ... it has come to our attention that our conference bridge provider is running into some problems with the "joinconference" skype connections. In case anyone gets in trouble, please try to call the phone numbers instead (e.g. from your phone, skype-out, google-voice, etc.) Attendees: KenBaclawski (co-champion), MarcelaVegetti (co-champion), AliHashemi, JohnMcClure, LeoObrst, FrodeHegland (Liquidizer; briefly, on chat only), MikeDean, PeterYim, TejasParikh (on chat only) == Proceedings: == [6:02] PeterYim: the working OntologPSMW instance for today is at: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki [6:10] List of members: AliHashemi, KenBaclawski, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim [6:11] AliHashemi: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack [6:23] anonymous morphed into John McClure [6:24] John McClure: There, thank you for the open invitation! [6:25] John McClure: which items is ? speaking about [6:26] PeterYim: that was Ken [6:26] John McClure: tx [6:27] AliHashemi: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack#nid3PFF [6:35] MikeDean: @John, is there a public SMW instance instantiating your ontology that we can look at? [6:37] John McClure: i am starting to put it out at a site named BestPracticesWiki.net [6:37] John McClure: Hi Mike [6:37] John McClure: Hi Ali! [6:39] John McClure: http://www.bestpracticeswiki.net/view/Wiki_Ontology_1.0 [6:43] MikeDean: draft OWL 2 Ontology of Ontology Evaluation is available at http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/HC-05_Ontology-of-OntologyEvaluation/owl/ [6:48] KenBaclawski: The survey is at http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Category:OntologySummit2013_Survey [7:01] PeterYim: @Liquidizer - is that Frode? [7:02] PeterYim: @Liquidizer - please join us at the conference call - dial-in details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack#nid3QCV [7:04] MikeDean: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Special:SpecialPages provides a lot of information about the Wiki, including defined categories (classes) at http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Special:Categories, properties at http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Special:Properties, and installed software at http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Special:Version [7:16] List of members: AliHashemi, John McClure, KenBaclawski, Liquidizer, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim [7:21] PeterYim: @John - I have created your account on the http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki - [ JohnMcClure / hyperg ] please change the tmp pw after you login successfully [7:24] AliHashemi: There was an outstanding question from the website creation... When creating a form, is it possible to embed another form within? [7:24] AliHashemi: That question was directed @John [7:29] AliHashemi: )got a phone call, brb) [7:36] AliHashemi: (back) [7:54] KenBaclawski: Marcela and John will stay on this chat room. [7:54] KenBaclawski: For the mapping code discussion we will use a separate chat room: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/hc-04b [7:55] John McClure: hi marcella! [7:55] MarcelaVegetti: hi John [7:56] John McClure: marcela, where are you located [7:56] John McClure: i am in seattlke [7:56] MarcelaVegetti: I'm from Argentina [7:56] John McClure: very great - i like your prez [7:59] MarcelaVegetti: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Ontology2013Website_welcome_page_prototype [8:04] John McClure: ==OntologySummit2013&#hid2J== [8:05] John McClure: == {{OntologySummit2013}} == [8:24] John McClure: Property:Abbe This is a property of type [[Has type::Number]]. [8:31] MarcelaVegetti: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/project/OntologySummit2013-content-hack-project--KenBaclawski-MarcelaVegetti-et-al_20130323b.pdf [8:34] MarcelaVegetti: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/2013-03-28_OntologySummit2013_Hackathon-Clinics_Launch/OntologySummit2013_HC-04b_OntologPSMW-Hack--KenBaclawski-et-al_20130328.pdf [8:35] MarcelaVegetti: mvegetti@gmail.com [8:35] John McClure: jmcclure@hypergrove.com [8:35] MarcelaVegetti: skype id: mvegetti [9:50] MarcelaVegetti: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2013 [9:57] AliHashemi: Hello all, apologies, but I think I was too optimistic about my timing. I need to be leaving my house in about 2 hours, and I don't think I can multi-task while finishing preparations for my trip. I will keep on top of the progress made, and will be happy to contribute asynchronously anyway I can. [9:58] AliHashemi: _ I did have a question to pose to the group [9:59] AliHashemi: Earlier in the call, I mentioned about treating the ontology as loaded on the PSMW as a sort of controlled vocabulary. As Mike Dean has pointed out, RDFS is teh out-of-box functionality provided. I have worked on another test project, which sort of subverts the intent of the PSMW semantics, but possibly allows more flexibility. [9:59] John McClure: ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/special:browse/OntologySummit2013_Website_Development [10:03] AliHashemi: Namely, for another project, we'd developed a relatively expressive ontology, yet in the SMW world we're limited to Categories and Properties. The unfaithful mapping I've been toying with, is to map Entities (or classes) into Categories, but to also map Relations into Properties, with the target of the properties being other Categories. This occasionally necessitates the coining of novel Categories that are not present in the initial ontology, but also provide a workaround for some of the domain-range restrictions imposed by RDFS. In this way, we use the Entities and Relations in the original ontology as a controlled vocab on the wiki that are used to annotate a variety of information resources, and it allows some limited querying over the content assets. Similar to what we're doing, but also involving the mapping of relations. I'd be curious to hear other's thoughts about this approach, or if we're needlessly complicated things and there is a more straightforward approach to do what I described. [10:06] PeterYim: the main conference bridge is now re-opened for HC-04: ** Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... Conference ID: 141184# ; or ** Skype: joinconference ... Conference ID: 141184# [10:14] AliHashemi: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms/Quick_start_guide [10:18] AliHashemi: "create properties." [10:23] AliHashemi: Namespacing? - http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Special:Categories [10:26] AliHashemi: ultimately, we're introducing a string literal as a workaround to preserving namespace terms in the PSMW [10:27] John McClure: icom:Project [10:27] John McClure: icon:Project [10:27] AliHashemi: 'icom:project [10:27] John McClure: icom:Project [10:27] John McClure: property:icom:Project [10:28] John McClure: [[icom:poroject::Summit2013]] [10:31] John McClure: within property:icom:project, put [[subpropertOf::project]] [10:31] John McClure: {{#ask:[[project::+]]}} [10:31] John McClure: {{#ask:[[icom:project]]}} [10:32] John McClure: these two are equivalemt [10:32] MarcelaVegetti: I have some problems with the audio [10:33] John McClure: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2013#Workspaces: [10:34] PeterYim: @Marcela - I muted your line (there were background noises) ... do a *7 (to un-mute) when you need to talk [10:34] PeterYim: @Marcela - can you hear us better now? [10:35] MarcelaVegetti: no [10:35] MarcelaVegetti: I only hear part of the conversation [10:35] PeterYim: @Marcela - can you disconnect, and reconnect again ... to see if it gets better? [10:36] MarcelaVegetti: ok [10:36] John McClure: .icom:ghhghg [10:36] KenBaclawski: The use of colons for namespace prefixes seems to work fine. Here is an example: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/Category:icom_core:Space [10:37] MarcelaVegetti: I reconnect again but the problem continue [10:38] PeterYim: @Marcela - yes ... I can still see the background noise on your line [10:38] PeterYim: @Marcela - it seems better now from my end (I didn't do anything) ... has it improved on your side? [10:39] MarcelaVegetti: a bit [10:40] PeterYim: there is not much I can do, let's hope it goes on, at least, with an acceptable voice quality for you [10:41] John McClure: icom:Person subPropertyOf Person [10:41] John McClure: {{#ask [[category:Person]]}} [10:41] MarcelaVegetti: I lost some parts but I'll try to follow the conversation [10:47] John McClure: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/w/index.php?title=OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics [10:49] John McClure: http://ontolog-dev.cim3.net/wiki/OntologySummit2013#Workspaces: [10:50] PeterYim: (need to step out ... brb) [10:56] PeterYim: (I'm back) [11:03] KenBaclawski: A page that was generated with a form will have a special tab/link "Edit with Form" when the category page uses the property "has default form". I will be adding this to the categories. [11:11] anonymous morphed into TejasParikh [11:16] PeterYim: Hi Tejas ... [11:18] PeterYim: @Tejas - join us on the call too, please - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack#nid3QCV [11:18] List of members: AliHashemi, John McClure, KenBaclawski, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim, TejasParikh [11:21] KenBaclawski: Tejas, we are taking a break for one hour. We are returning to the chat room and conference bridge at 3:20 EDT, 12:20 PDT, 4:20 ART. [11:25] PeterYim: == HC-04 is breaking (for lunch) returning in ~1 hour - resuming 15:20 EDT / 12:20 PDT / 16:20 ART / 19:20 UTC ... please come back to the same chat-room, same conference line - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_SemanticContentHack#nid3QCV [11:25] PeterYim: @Tejas - let's sync-up on skype a bit, if you have a chance [11:27] List of attendees: AliHashemi, John McClure, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, Liquidizer, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim, TejasParikh, anonymous [11:27] Sent transcript to: ppy@cim.us [11:29] John McClure: seems a "collaboration" is what was meant as a "project" .... and should be a separate unique entity in the data model [12:12] John McClure: This explains the "Semantic Forms Permission Test" that is sometimes seen, unfortunately.... http://www.mail-archive.com/wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg158229.html [12:14] John McClure: my data model suggestion is this: add "project" as an entity, and eliminate child workspaces. User interface will be easier, and the concept of "project workspaces" makes more sense to people, not "child workspaces", which may end up being a recipe for people getting "lost" in a hierarchy of workspaces.... just a suggestion... [12:16] John McClure: i further suggest that all pages have a property whose value is {{PAGENAME}} [12:18] John McClure: i know! it seems maliciously redundant, however smw has problems with subqueries that this technique helps overcome [12:19] PeterYim: HC-04 to resume now ... [12:21] PeterYim: the voice conference line is open now too: ** Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... Conference ID: 141184# ; or ** Skype: joinconference ... Conference ID: 141184# [12:23] PeterYim: Shared-screen support (VNC session) is available now, at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ ... view-only password: "ontolog" [13:23] John McClure: ok I have reduced the problem a bit, to the error message: Error: The inserted data results in an empty page title. So i will duplicate this on my wiki and do a little debugging there. Yaron is not around to pester, and i'll see if i can also fix this "Semantic Forms permission test" crap [13:28] John McClure: OK I fixed the problem.... the form had "com..." rather than "icom..." grr So now creating a hierarchy of spaces works [13:31] PeterYim: [action] KenBaclawski will be doing the HC-04 presentation at the OntologySummitSympoisum [13:32] PeterYim: [action] MarcelaVegetti & AliHashemi will be doing the Website presentation at the OntologySummit2013_Sympoisum [13:37] PeterYim: ... MikeDean and RamSriram are our Symposium co-chairs this year [13:32] PeterYim: great session ... [13:32] PeterYim: -- HC-04 hackathon session adjourned -- [13:33] List of members: John McClure, KenBaclawski, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim, TejasParikh [13:33] List of attendees: AliHashemi, John McClure, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, Liquidizer, MarcelaVegetti, MikeDean, PeterYim, TejasParikh, anonymous ------