dss/jsl/ppy/OntologySummit2013_hc-02_chat-transcript_unedited_20130406a.txt List of attendees: DjokoSayogo, James Michaelis (RPI), Joanne Luciano, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, LeoObrst1, MikeDean, Nic, PeterYim, anonymous ------ Chat transcript from room: hc-02 2013-04-06 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [6:13] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologySummit2013 Hackathon & Clinics - Day-2 Activities - Sat 2013.04.06 = This is the chat-rom for: HC-02 * Dial-in for the "Open Webcast" segments of ALL Projects (ref. time schedule below) ** Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... Conference ID: 141184# ; or ** Skype: joinconference ... Conference ID: 141184# * Project HC-02. The General Ontology Evaluation Framework (GOEF) & the I-Choose Use Case ** Kick-off and Open webcast segment - 1 Hr. 45 min. (est.) *** starting: Sat 2013.04.13 - 8:00am PDT / 11:00am EDT / 5:00pm CEST / 15:00 UTC *** Project Homepage: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_GOEF_IChoose *** Project chat-room (up when in session): http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/hc-02 Logistics: * Refer to details on Hackathon_Clinics homepage at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName (in WikiWord format) * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: it may be under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later or the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. * Note: ... it has come to our attention that our conference bridge provider is running into some problems with the "joinconference" skype connections. In case anyone gets in trouble, please try to call the phone numbers instead (e.g. from your phone, skype-out, google-voice, etc.) Attendess: List of attendees: JoanneLuciano (champion), DjokoSigitSayogo, JamesMichaelis, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, MikeDean, NicolauDePaula, PeterYim == Proceedings: == [7:58] anonymous morphed into DjokoSayogo [8:00] PeterYim: == HC-02 is now in session [8:00] anonymous morphed into Nic [8:04] KenBaclawski: The Use Case Description Ontology is shown at http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/ontologies/ and there is an example at http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/ontologies/oor-usecase.xml [8:06] Nic uploaded file: Hackathon -- GOEF & I-Choose - v7.ppt [8:09] PeterYim: Joanne ... we can't hear you any more [8:10] PeterYim: you need to call in again, Joanne [8:11] You initiated a private chat with: Joanne Luciano [8:12] PeterYim: the above slides are now in the (webdav) shared-file workspace, and available as: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/HC-02_GOEF-iChoose/Hackathon--GOEF_I-Choose-v7_20130406a.ppt [8:13] Joanne Luciano10: back now [8:14] PeterYim: we lost you again, Joanne [8:14] PeterYim: can you call the tel nbr instead: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... Conference ID: 141184# [8:14] Joanne Luciano: I'm consolidate myself [8:15] PeterYim: we cannot hear you, Joanne [8:15] PeterYim: you're off the conference bridge again [8:15] Joanne Luciano: ok, working [8:15] PeterYim: please try calling the number [8:15] Joanne Luciano: ok, need to get a phone [8:16] PeterYim: you can use skype to call the number [8:16] PeterYim: "skype-out" [8:17] Nic: calling... [8:21] Joanne Luciano: any questions with that intro? [8:22] PeterYim: good intro, thanks [8:25] Nic: Objectives: 1) Making connections, help for assistance in future [8:26] Nic: 2) Two projects: Development of Generalized Ontology Evaluation Framework & Ontology of Sustainable Certification Systems [8:27] DjokoSayogo: I-Choose focus currently is on USDA Organic, Fairtrade and UTZ certification [8:29] Nic uploaded file: i-choose_lower.owl [8:32] PeterYim: the ontology is accessible now as: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/HC-02_GOEF-iChoose/wip/i-choose_lower.owl [8:39] Nic: Any questions so far [8:48] DjokoSayogo: there are other actors involved, primarily in the certification is producer, inspector and certification agent [9:08] LeoObrst: Gotta got: good luck! [9:10] PeterYim: [action] Peter will make available a raw version of the audio recording when it is available [9:11] PeterYim: I urge everyone to capture what they are saying onto this chat-space too, so that the chat-transcript can represent a reasonable record of the proceedings [9:13] Nic: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/ontologies/ [9:13] Nic: Ontology of use case [9:14] PeterYim: KenBaclawski et al's "Use Case Description Ontology (UCDO)" [9:18] DjokoSayogo: can you explain one more time the different between actor and participant, Ken [9:19] KenBaclawski: The example is http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/ontologies/oor-usecase.xml [9:33] Joanne Luciano: ok, say again? [9:34] Joanne Luciano: Ken's got a tool, that enables restful and WSDL services at the same time. [9:35] Joanne Luciano: SOAPREST [9:38] Nic: COMMENTS BY Leo (regarding evaluation metrics): For intrinsic evaluation: you wanna see form, but make sure that you have all primary domain components. Then what you can do is given primary components, are they all relatively equally all specified at the same level of granulatiry. You can do things like "bushiness" or "average densities" (refering to trees) using intrinsic methods of ontology. This is not necessary good gauge for satyisfying use case, but you can gauge in terms of connectivity that your ontology represents (to use case?). You can have property, you can say things like "do I have similar number of properties in respect to my major classes"? these may kind of structural/intrinsic criteria... Joanne: Could we have a "library" for these. Leo: Folks at the Yooks group are hoping to be able to call upon on a library of these qualities/properties that you can use to evaluate. On the extrinsic side we are getting to the extended domain requirements and application requirements. You could have the same domain but different applications, in which case those different applications originate in different use cases (though maybe not). For example, one does display, other does navigation and display. YOu can imagine that the extrinsic evaluation criteria may be working in the same domain, but application will give different requirements. You go from very simple properties to properties such as "average number of classes" or those associated with clusters.....(?). There is the earlier part of domain analysis looking at components ... then extend more into extrinsic as in satisfying criteria... judged by domain experts(!). Nic: Purpose of GOEF is to formalize use cases and ontology evaluation without need for domain experts. GOING OVER ONTOLOGY OF EVALUATION - Comments by Ken Right hand corner of UML diagram there are actors. THere are two kinds: ' This leads to participant. Use case is then a series of steps. Each step has/is pre condition and post condition. The series of steps determined. In this ontology, you can also have alternative flows, which leads to different use case flows. Difference between actor and participant: participant can be initiator step (system) but not always an actor. What would be interesting would be to have a tool to take this formal specification of use cases and evaluate it against an ontology. (Which is what GOEF wants to do!). You have particular use case for evaluating process/source to make sure complies with criteria. You would take use case then ontology and see if you can map use case to class and properties in your ontology. We could develop a tool to do this. JOANNE: This is what GOEF needs! Now, we are imagining that this tool to evaluate ontologies against use cases may be modeled using SADI. REGARDING SADI: Ken's got a tool, that enables restful and WSDL services at the same time. Ken: The tool is called SOAPREST. Ken would be interested in helping develop this tool. [9:41] Nic: Fix above: Not "Going over ontology of evaluation" But "ONTOLOGY OF USE CASE" [9:42] MikeDean: Peter: might get a lot of leverage from combining Ken's UCDO with Ontology of Ontology Evaluation [9:43] MikeDean: draft OWL 2 Ontology of Ontology Evaluation is available at http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/HC-05_Ontology-of-OntologyEvaluation/owl/ [9:43] PeterYim: ref HC-05. Hackathon: Ontology of Ontology Evaluation [9:44] PeterYim: ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013_Hackathon_Clinics_OntologyOfOntologyEvaluation [9:44] KenBaclawski: The documentation for soaprest is at http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/soaprest/doc/ [9:45] KenBaclawski: The soaprest package, including all documentation, source code and example is at http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/kenb/soaprest.jar [9:50] PeterYim: MikeDean: "Evaluation" is the top level ontology ... Protege 4 is handling it beautifully [9:50] PeterYim: ^ http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/Hackathon-Clinics/HC-05_Ontology-of-OntologyEvaluation/owl/evaluation.ttl [9:58] PeterYim: engage in the ongoing "Ontology-based Standards" initiative too! [9:58] PeterYim: ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologyBasedStandards [9:59] PeterYim: == adjourning the open webcast segment now ... [9:59] List of attendees: DjokoSayogo, James Michaelis (RPI), James Michaelis (RPI)1, Joanne Luciano, Joanne Luciano1, Joanne Luciano10, Joanne Luciano2, Joanne Luciano3, Joanne Luciano4, Joanne Luciano5, Joanne Luciano6, Joanne Luciano7, Joanne Luciano8, Joanne Luciano9, KenBaclawski, LeoObrst, LeoObrst1, MikeDean, Nic, PeterYim, anonymous [9:59] PeterYim: bye ... and good luck! [10:02] PeterYim: @Joanne - at the end of your work-day, please remember to send me your chat-transcript for the records. Tx. ------