ppy/chat-transcript_unedited_20110317a.txt Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20110317 2011-03-17 GMT-08:00 [08:10] anonymous morphed into Martin Gladwell [09:12] PeterYim: Welcome to the ... OntologySummit2011: Virtual Session-7 - "Perspectives from the European Commission" - Thu 2011_03_17 Summit Theme: OntologySummit2011: Making the Case for Ontology Session Theme: Perspective from the European Commission Session Chair: Dr. Nicola Guarino (ISTC-CNR) Invited Speakers: Dr. Marta Nagy-Rothengass & Dr. Stefano Bertolo (INFSO-DG, European Commission) Title: "Thoughts without content are empty, intuitions without concepts are blind but you must set priorities and budgets for what you want to look at (with an eye to the EU's Digital Agenda and apologies to Kant). Please refer to details (dial-in, agenda, slides, etc.) on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2011_03_17 . [09:19] anonymous morphed into Nicola Guarino [09:23] anonymous morphed into Rhett Moeller [09:26] anonymous morphed into christopherspottiswoode [09:32] anonymous morphed into Sean Barker [09:32] RexBrooks: I will be late phoning in. I'm on another call right now. [09:34] anonymous morphed into Duane Nickull [09:34] anonymous1 morphed into aharth [09:35] anonymous morphed into Denny Vrandecic [09:37] SteveRay: Cheat sheet: *2 = mute; *3 = unmute [09:38] TerryLongstreth: I thought it was *3 unmute and *4 [09:38] SteveRay: Good idea, Matthew [09:39] Rhett Moeller: Not according to the instructions on the site-- *2/*3. [09:40] Frank Olken: Hi, this is Frank Olken. I have joined the call. I seem to be unable to edit the web page (attendee list). [09:40] anonymous morphed into AldenDima1 [09:41] AldenDima1 morphed into AldenDima [09:41] Rhett Moeller: @Frank, have you tried clicking the Settings link in the main area of the window? [09:41] Rhett Moeller: Then there's a field for you to type your name in. [09:42] SteveRay: Frank, please don't edit the wiki. Peter Yim is editing it. [09:42] SteveRay: Since you are logged in to the chat, Peter can see that you are present. [09:45] LeoObrst: Just joined. [09:47] Nicola Guarino: sorry I got disconnected from the phone, I am calling again [09:48] Nicola Guarino: I am on the phone again, sorry [09:48] Nicola Guarino: Which slides are we? [09:49] PeterYim: slide#5 now [09:50] anonymous morphed into PavithraKenjige [09:50] RexBrooks: As a SOA person in OASIS, I'm pleased to see "service' so prominent in this slide. [09:52] PeterYim: @Pavithra - (your hand is up) we are holding Q&A till after the presentation is done. Could you type out your question please [09:54] RexBrooks: We should move to next slide, Peter. [09:54] PeterYim: thanks, Rex - on slide#9 now [09:55] RexBrooks: The difficulty with interoperability is the continuing corporate emphasis on some degree of proprietariness for maximizing profits. They have not gotten enough value yet. [09:56] PeterYim: @Frank - I have added you to the attendee list already (only one person should be editing the wiki anyway) ... thanks for joining [09:57] Nicola Guarino: @RexBrooks: yes, but even without proprietary concerns still huge interoperability problems remain. Interoperability has remained a priority for the EU for many years now, and still we are far from achievieng it [09:58] PeterYim: slide#12 now [09:58] RexBrooks: @Nicola: agreed! [10:01] SteveRay: I would be interested to know the source of the funding numbers. Does this include private investment or just government investment. My impression was that EU was outspending the US in government investment. [10:01] PeterYim: slide#14 now [10:04] Nicola Guarino: Marta's point on ensuring interoperability even in absence of standards is very important from the ontology community point of view... [10:04] SteveRay: Agreed. Ontologies will help with mapping among heterogeneous models of information. [10:06] PeterYim: slide #17 now [10:06] RexBrooks: @Nicola: Agreed again. I am building a couple of de facto use-based, user-defined ontologies for emergency management as an example for people to have terminologies they can use, and as a basis in the future for mapping other terminologies to these or other ontologies. [10:07] Rhett Moeller: Steve/Nicola, that's where I get excited and really interested in this topic-- the ability to provide a consistent framework in spite of the differences between different lines of business. [10:09] SteveRay: @Rhett: Indeed. From a pragmatic perspective, we will never get everyone to stick to a single model of information important to them (often for good reason); therefore, mapping among models becomes the mechanism for interoperability. [10:13] PeterYim: slide #21 now [10:13] LeoObrst: Sorry, what's the slide? [10:13] SteveRay: 22 [10:14] SteveRay: 25 [10:18] Denny Vrandecic1 morphed into Denny Vrandecic (KIT) [10:19] RexBrooks: Very surprised to see 3D objects and models. Excellent! [10:19] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): Yay to semantic wikis! :) [10:21] Nicola Guarino: @Rex: AIM@Shape was one of the most successful projects, in my opinion. Not much ontology there, but promising good stuff [10:22] Nicola Guarino: @Marta (slide 18): despite EU efforts on promoting strong interdisciplinary communities, still the ontology community in EU is a bit scattered, and many researches workin on EU-funded projects involving ontologies are suspicious towards an open interdisciplinary approach (especially if this philosophy-oriented research on formal ontology). [10:26] PeterYim: Stefano Bertolo presenting -> slide #35 [10:28] RexBrooks: @Nicola:My surprise is due to the convergence of 3D and KM, especially with regard to CMS. You can show or visualize a higher density of information, especially as categories if you use 3D constructs such as flippable pages we see now in iPad and XOOM as interfaces. You can get a much nigher density of material into a given screen. [10:29] PeterYim: slide#37 now [10:30] SteveRay: Ah - good quote: "The need comes first, ontologies come later" [10:30] PeterYim: slide #39 now - [10:32] Rhett Moeller: I like that-- strong design element. [10:32] Rhett Moeller: Exposing what the user is *intending* to use is a huge thing. [10:40] Rhett Moeller: Why can't cable companies offer that? :) [10:41] Brand Niemann (Semantic Community): Sounds like cloud computing to me! [10:42] SteveRay: I think his point is this is cloud "data" as an analog to cloud "computing" [10:43] Brand Niemann (Semantic Community): Every European Digital by their use of cloud computing tools! [10:46] PeterYim: slide#52 now [10:49] PeterYim: slide#54 and on --> [10:51] PeterYim: slide#56 [10:51] anonymous morphed into Bobbin Teegarden [10:52] PeterYim: @StefanoBertolo - your slide numbering seems to be 1 (count) less than the shared deck, ALL: please note [10:55] PeterYim: 58 [10:58] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): i lost voice? [10:58] Rhett Moeller: Just lost the call-- anyone else? [10:58] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): is it just me? [10:58] Rhett Moeller: Nope. [10:58] Nicola Guarino: me also... [10:58] Michel Vanden Bossche: We lost stephano [10:58] Martin Gladwell: gone [10:58] Eric S. Chan: I lost audio [10:58] PeterYim: @Stefano - we lost you ... can you call in again! [10:58] Rhett Moeller: I need to go anyway-- thank you for the fascinating introduction. [10:58] Sean Barker: gone here too [10:58] Martin Gladwell: lost my line will ned to dial back [10:59] SteveRay: I'm hearing nothing... I think the bridge went down. [10:59] PeterYim: Nicola - is there some way to reach Marta or Stefano? [10:59] Nicola Guarino: The problem is that Stefano is not on the chat board... [10:59] AldenDima: @peter - Is audio down? [10:59] AlanRector: The sound seems just to have dropped out [10:59] PeterYim: @Alden and All - Yes ... the speakers' line seem to be off [11:00] Nicola Guarino: I am trying to speak, but it doesn't work [11:00] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): i hear someone [11:00] Nicola Guarino: looks like a different call! [11:01] RexBrooks: Yes, it sounds like our telecon line got crossed with another. [11:01] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): i hear [11:01] Martin Gladwell: yes [11:01] SteveRay: I dialed back in, and unmuted. That worked. We have still lost the speakers though. [11:02] RexBrooks: The speakers don't have a vnc connection, I believe. [11:04] RexBrooks: This has been a terrific presentation so far. Very informative. [11:05] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): tweeting to stefano [11:06] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): oh [11:06] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): now i got disconnected from the call completely [11:07] Denny Vrandecic (KIT): back [11:07] RexBrooks: I lost him on slide 58. [11:09] PeterYim: we're on slide#59 now - when Stefano calls out the number, please add 1 (the numbering on our deck and his differs by one) [11:10] SteveRay: Question for the speakers: In your opinion what do you find most compelling when proposers are "Making the case" for an ontology-based proposal? And what do you believe commercial stakeholders find most compelling? I imagine the answers to these two questions will be different. [11:13] RexBrooks: Marta's point on interoperability is key for me. What has been provided about the EU effort adds numerous powerful arguments especially about knowledge management and content management that should help make the case for interoperability for which ontology is essential. [11:18] Nicola Guarino: @Stefano: the paradoxical aspect is that the ontologies used (and advocated for) by the linked data people have been becoming poorer and poorer while the Web of data was increasing... Do linked data people feel the need of good ontologies? [11:20] RexBrooks: GoodRelations is just a start. Could be exciting to see eCommerce take off. [11:21] Nicola Guarino: @Stefano: Well, I would not insist on the fact that the GoodRelations ontology helps to specify *exactly* the kinds of services offered... For instance, they don't distinguish clearly between goods and services... they mainly describe goods... [11:22] PeterYim: @Nicola & Stefano - I guess LOD folks still need "good ontologies" (by whatever label one calls them) ... ref LeoObrst's recent post responding to DieterFensel - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2011-03/msg00148.html - vocabularies/Ontologies to describe linked data are indeed needed ... and are "not quite available" yet [11:24] SteveRay: He's on the slide numbered 72 [11:24] PeterYim: @StefanoBertolo - ref. your slides #70 & #71 - well said! [11:24] PeterYim: slide#73 now [11:26] RexBrooks: @Stefano: Our Ontology Application Framework is not aimed at central focus of editor, but to the range of applications which can be amplified or made possible by the overall set of ontogoical resources, including editors. [11:27] RexBrooks: Excellent slides on Value Metrics, Models. [11:28] PeterYim: slide#77 now [11:28] SteveRay: This is great input, although I fear Stafano has misunderstood Nicola's questions to be whether they are interested in projects with titles corresponding to our 5 tracks. [11:29] RexBrooks: Volume, Value, Integration stories will definitely aid us in making the case for ontology. [11:30] SteveRay: Slide 78 speaks to our core question. [11:35] Nicola Guarino: @Steve: yes, and it is more or less in agreement with the discussion we had so far. Matthew, do you agree? [11:36] Nicola Guarino: Peter, can you hear me? [11:36] RexBrooks: Excellent Presentation! [11:36] PeterYim: @Marta & Stefano - barvo! Great Talk! ... simply awesome! [11:37] Nicola Guarino: Steve? [11:38] Nicola Guarino: If you want to ask questions, please raise your hand [11:39] Matthew West: @Nicola: Yes I agree. [11:40] Nicola Guarino: The point on volume, value and integration is really new (as Rex underlined) [11:42] Matthew West: I need to go. [11:46] RexBrooks: In making the case for ontology, it seemed to me that the explosion of data, including unstructured data in textual form, is a BIG argument in our favor, provided we offer real solutions rather than explanations about ontology. Correct? [11:49] christopherspottiswoode: @ Bertolo: (My mike isn't getting thru...) Isn't there a quality problem with those quantities of LOD triples? And ontologies should be able to address it. [11:49] RexBrooks: Ahh, good points! [11:50] Nicola Guarino: I lost my phone connection, I am calling back [11:50] Nicola Guarino: I am on again [11:51] RexBrooks: Someone should ask Christopher's question for him. [11:51] CoryCasanave: And by "sensors" include all the transactional data in the world developed by existing IT systems [11:52] RexBrooks: @Cory: Agreed. [11:56] christopherspottiswoode: Masses of well-defined LOD from different sources tends to miss the value-add from interrelationships in the T-box. [11:57] SteveRay: Excellent session. Thanks very much. [11:58] PeterYim: Yes ... great session! [11:58] christopherspottiswoode: Many thanks Bertolo for your most articulate presentation! [11:58] PeterYim: session ended: 11:58 am PDT --