chat-transcript_20100204f_unedited.txt // anonymous morphed into Ray.McCormick PeterYim: Welcome to PeterYim: OntologySummit2010: Panel Session-3 - "Training Requirements for Ontologists" - Thu 4-Feb-2010 (26K9) OntologySummit2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future" (26KA) * Panel Session-3 Topic: "What Are We Training For?" (26KB) * Chair: Dr. AmandaVizedom (Wind River Consulting) - [ opening slides ] (2862) * Panelists: (2863) o Professor DeniseBedford (Kent State University) - "Requirements for Ontologists: Current and Future" - [ slides ] (2864) o Dr. MichaelUschold (Reinvent Technology, Canada) - - [ notes ] (2865) o Mr. MikeBennett (Hypercube, UK) - - [ [ slides] ] (2866) o Dr. JohnSowa (VivoMind Intelligence) - - [ slides ] (2867) PeterYim: details are on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_02_04 PeterYim: . anonymous morphed into JulitaBermejoAlonso anonymous morphed into Nicola Guarino Nicola Guarino: hi Ali! how are you? AliHashemi: Hello Nicola! I am doing well. MikeBennett: Just tried dialling with a phone and it was worse than Skype. Hope the sound is Ok AliHashemi: I keep on getting a "That was not a valid conference room" AliHashemi morphed into Ali Hashemi SteveRay: Which slide are we on? SteveRay: OK. Slide #6 now. ArturoSanchez: 6 currently SteveRay: @Denise: Press *3 AmandaVizedom: Denise, are you still there? RaviSharma: Denise *3 to umute RaviSharma: Denise: What is specifically meant by "ontological forms rather than developing in context" -examples? ArturoSanchez: @DeniseBedford: (cf. slide 7) Of course, the development workflows are not linear. Also, it is not clear at what point the ontology is actually consumed (i.e., it now becomes an artifact of another development cycle, for instance, software development). Any comments? RaviSharma: Denise: Would you agree that example of "business" would be a doain area such as XBRL for financial services domain, I think Mike will address some of it? Further while i see a lot of MDM, BPM, Data and Enity empashis in your definitions and workflow, I would like to know your views on "data-to-information" of value to "business" and beyond data (even MDM) to terms and vocabularies that help information exchange. Further Ontologies have to embrace concepts of "affinity" among entities (Things) by weighing Predicates etc. Also CEP and decision support ...etc. anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu Gary Berg-Cross: Denise on slide 8 you have "Enterprise Architecture (business architecture, Gary Berg-Cross: Is there more that iten since the paren doesn't close? PeterYim: @Mike & Amanda - I've got Mike's updated slides up now Gary Berg-Cross: For Whom Do Ontologists Work? Organizational, besides the chief architect they often, organizationally, work for a CIO. RaviSharma: Thanks Denise, for response to my comments, let us also chat offline on such important topics RaviSharma: Mike: Great summary on tools and their importance and balanced view from Ontology development perspective including patterns - thanks. Nicola Guarino: @Mike Uschold: ontology design patterns are fine, but if they are too much underspecified they don't really help semantic interoperability, since two people who adopt the same pattern may actually disagree... Unfortunately most of the pattern on the site you mentioned are very underspecified (check roles, collections, situations...) RaviSharma: Ralph: great comments on patterns, and diverse applications, NASA telemetry, etc.reuse is not clear to me yet? PeterYim: @RalphHodgson (and ALL): to contributing asynchronously would be to respond to the surveys and join the Real-time Delphi study - the single entry point to those is: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Survey ... thanks in advance Nicola Guarino: I support VERY MUCH John Sowa's point on the importance of translating simple NL statements in logic. I also agree o the importance of choosing right names for concepts, underlined by Mike. In general, this kind of linguistic/logic competence is an essential requisite for an ontologist. Unfortunately I have to go, bye bye everybody. AmandaVizedom: @Nicola: I quite agree, and in fact have spent significant time in recent months thinking about how to take this right-on idea of Ontology Design Patterns and apply it in a way we can really use. This has got, I think, to include at least specifying (formalizing) the technical assumptions (DL-only like the current collection, for example), purpose (decision support, classification, information retrieval, for example) and some other aspects of the application context. Something that deserves a Ontolog session or thread of its own, I think! AmandaVizedom: Noting a point of MikeBennett's for record: importance of differentiating field X from Xical Engineering. Ontologists much know how to take the principles of Ontology and apply them in a situation to solve a problem (paraphrased). PeterYim: @MikeBennett: still can't quite catch that last sentence, can you type it out here, please? RaviSharma: Mike: Where are we at using XBRL and (ontology oriented) transactions in financial services? RexBrooks: The notion of "not designing" ontologies, but discovering or capturing the structure or organization of some domain of knowledge or discourse is what, for me personally, is FUN in the sense that Mike Uschold was making in his last point. AmandaVizedom: Final point from MikeBennett: The art of doing ontology is the art of *not* designing something. RexBrooks: It would be helpful to "capture" the minds of bright young people for the field of ontology with this kind of FUN. SteveRay: For the record, I raised the question of the distinction between "design" and "creating an ontology" that MikeBennett raised. RaviSharma: Mike: Does Ontology help bridge this apparent "lack of synchronization" between "Business Processes" as you described and items such as "logical or physical data models"? anonymous morphed into Jim Disbrow PeterYim: prefixing my early msg to Ralph and All, I meant to say: "one good way to contribute asynchronously would be to respond to the surveys ..." MikeBennett: @Ravi I would certainly hope so - my view (no shared by all?) is that ontology should be situated within a formal place in the development methodology, which is why I see an ontologist as being a kind of engineer as well as someone who understands meaning MikeBennett: @Ravi XBRL - long story... Ed Dodds: @MikeBennett - ontoneer - function of the PMO? MikeBennett: @Ed Ed Dodds: @RaviSharma Hitachi's "XBRL for Dummies" Primer advocating putting XBRL as far into the data chain as possible -- don't know what traction that has. Did see MIX the other day http://hitachidatainteractive.com/2008/02/01/xbrl-supports-microfinance/ AmandaVizedom: Ways of contributing asynchronously: (1) Respond to the Surveys, via the single-point entry page http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Survey, as Peter noted. This page has information to help you decide which surveys to take, as well as links to each. (2) Share *your* thoughts on today's focal question, as our panelists have, by posting to this track's Community Input page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_PresentRequirements_CommunityInput! ArturoSanchez: Slide 7 PeterYim: and, of course, post any thoughts to the [ontology-summit] mailing list (with a proper [PREFIX]) RaviSharma: John: Of course being mentored by you on Ontolog Forum, I am indebted and todays presentation is a good way to learn how to connect ontology learning and logic? PeterYim: coorection on Amanda's 2nd link above (the exclamation mark is not part of it) - it should be http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_PresentRequirements_CommunityInput AmandaVizedom: Whoops - Thank you, Peter. anonymous morphed into Michael Uschold PeterYim: to contribute to the discussion - see under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010#nid25CT Michael Uschold: I wonder how much encoding sentences in English into first order logic is useful to ontologists of the future, not sure how relevant today. MikeBennett: What John is saying defines the difference between someone who gets the concepts and someone who drives tools RaviSharma: John: Many thanks for good explanation of english and logic, and I now see importance of studying Aristotle and his influence into parsing english sentence. Now my related question, if we have a reasonably clear (subjective) text as is semi-professional and publishable (no slang etc), then what % of sentences typically would fall into logic types expressed in slide 7 exemplified by 6 entries.? MikeBennett: Add an understanding of linguistics into the mix? (as per this example = se couduire - to drive oneself; v to drive cattle to market - a linguist would get that MikeBennett: I wonder if creating a reading list between us, would help us identify the sorts of things that an ontologist should know or be familiar with before they can call themselves one of those. RaviSharma: Amanda: model theoretic and physical entity and its model's congruence are a big open topic that I would like to understand you perspective on? It is exteremely relevant to ontology oriented learning and results. PavithraKenjige: Hi, Dr Sowa, your emphasis on theory or logic rather than a particular tool is interesting! Even though I agree with you, industry may not!People do look for experince in a set of tools rather than theory! SteveRay: It should not be "rather than" but "in addition to". Ed Dodds: @MikeBennett we could adopt #ontolog as a keyword on both delicious.com and diigo.com for a start on the reading list MikeBennett: @Pavithra that's a lot like the traditional difference between an engineer and a technician. Industry needs both, but we'd be lost without the engineers i.e. the people who can think in concepts 1st and tools 2nd PavithraKenjige: Thank SteveRay: Excellent session. Thanks Amanda. FabianNeuhaus: thank you amanda, great job RaviSharma: Amamnda: Thanks for a great session. PavithraKenjige: Thank you, it was excellent! SteveRay: ...and thanks to the panelists. MikeBennett: @Ed good call MikeBennett: thanks Amanda and everyone, great session AmandaVizedom: Thank you Panelists! PeterYim: Great session ... thanks everyone! PeterYim: -- session adjourned 12:28pm PST -- //