ppy/chat-transcript_unedited_20131010a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131010 2013-10-10 GMT-08:00 [PDT] ------ [9:25] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-4 - Thu 2013-10-10 = Session Co-chair: Mr. PeterYim (Ontolog; CIM3) & Dr. RamSriram* (NIST) Topic: The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard Program / Panelists / Briefings: * Mr. RalphHodgson (TopQuadrant) - "The NASA QUDT Ontology & Handbook" with an Introduction by Dr. PaulKeller* (NASA) * Some User-domain Standards Developers' Perspectives - ** Mr. SeanBarker (BAE Systems) - from Engineering & Systems Design ** Dr. SteveRay (CMU) & TobyConsidine (UNC) - from Smart Grid standardization ** Mr. MikeBennett (EDM Council) - from Financial Industry Business Ontology (FIBO) work (in absentia) * QUOMOS Developer Discussant - ** Mr. EdBarkmeyer* (NIST) ** Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction) - from ISO 15926-2 work (Industrial Automation and Systems Integration) (in absentia) (3YFS) ** Dr. PatHayes (IHMC) - Making the Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard * Open Discussion - ALL ** I. given what (standards works) are already available [1], do we still see the need for a cross-domain, International Quantity and Units of Measure Ontology Standard (like what the OASIS QUOMOS TC has chartered [3]), and ** II. if so, what could/should that QUOMOS ontology standard deliver, to best meet user needs and expectations? ... Remarks: *availability of these individuals may be affected by the US government shutdown (which started on 2013.10.01) and other factors Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.) . == Proceedings == . [9:11] anonymous morphed into Emilio Sanfilippo [9:23] anonymous morphed into Ed Bernot [9:25] anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu [9:28] anonymous morphed into Toby Considine [9:28] anonymous morphed into AmandaVizedom [9:29] SteveRay: Looks like the Skype "joinconference" is offline. I'll use the phone instead. [9:29] Toby Considine morphed into TobyConsidine [9:30] Ed Bernot morphed into EdBernot [9:30] SimonSpero: Skype-out is not just local. Darn. [9:30] anonymous morphed into BobbinTeegarden [9:31] AmandaVizedom: Peter, is "joinconference" out-of-play for this call, or is it being worked on and possibly coming online? [9:32] anonymous morphed into PatHayes [9:32] anonymous1 morphed into Sean Barker [9:32] SteveRay: Google voice is working fine... [9:33] anonymous morphed into Simon Cox [9:33] anonymous morphed into James Davenport [9:33] SimonSpero: One person in Chapel Hill, one in Raleigh - but no-one in Durham to line-pool with. Downside of cell-phone only life [9:34] Simon Cox: I see JoinConference fine [9:34] PeterYim: there have been reports on problems with skype connections to "joinconference" ... if that problem persists for you, please dial (using your phone of skype-out) into the phone number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184# [9:34] James Davenport: joinconference had problems but seems fine now [9:34] RalphHodgson: Testing whether I am anonymous [9:34] RalphHodgson: No I am not [9:34] PeterYim: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia, Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/ [9:36] Sean Barker: How do I unmute? [9:36] anonymous morphed into dsssl hypergrove [9:37] SimonSpero: *7 to un [9:38] ElizabethFlorescu: Joinconfenece still not working for me [9:38] SimonSpero: doh [9:38] SimonSpero: The local number for raleigh worked [9:39] anonymous morphed into Bruce Simons [9:39] PeterYim: @PatHayes - we can't hear you, *7 please [9:39] dsssl hypergrove: hi all - mcclure here [9:45] anonymous morphed into OnnoPaap [9:46] James Davenport: Where are these slides? [9:48] anonymous morphed into ElisaKendall [9:49] SteveRay: @James Davenport: The slides are found by the links on the conference wiki page, immediately after each speaker entry on the agenda. [9:50] Simon Cox: US Govt not so civilized just now [9:50] SteveRay: @James: Actually, more easily found near the top of the page, where you see "0-Chair" "1-Hodgson" etc. Those are the same links. [9:52] MichaelGruninger: There is a great three-part BBC miniseries hosted by the mathematician Marcus du Sautoy called "Precision: The Measure of All Things" outlining aspects of the history of measurement. [9:57] AmandaVizedom: Thanks for that reference, Michael. Put it on my "to watch" list. [9:58] dsssl hypergrove: these seem to be the slides........... http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/NASA-QUDT-Handbook-v10--RalphHodgson_20131010.pdf [9:58] PeterYim: == RalphHodgson presenting ... [9:58] List of members: AlanRector, AlexShkotin, AmandaVizedom, BobbinTeegarden, Bruce Simons, dsssl hypergrove, EdBernot, ElisaKendall, ElizabethFlorescu, Emilio Sanfilippo, Gary Berg-Cross, James Davenport, JoelBender, MichaelGruninger, OnnoPaap, PatHayes1, PeterYim, Richard Martin, Sean Barker, Simon Cox, SimonSpero, SteveRay, TaraAthan, TobyConsidine, vnc2 [10:02] PatHayes1: question for Ralph: if you ask for force times distance, do you get Work or Torque? [10:04] SteveRay: Slide 14 [10:04] SteveRay: @Pat: I presume you get all possible answers with the right dimensionality. [10:06] SimonSpero: Ralph: Just put it out in draft form for testing. [10:07] SimonSpero: PatHayes: The answer can be probabilistically inferred based on the name of the variable [10:08] PeterYim: ... on p.29 now [10:09] SimonSpero: @Pat: source code is text. Scientists are not very imaginative when it comes to naming variables - only when finding new ways to write fortran in whatever language they're given [10:16] Simon Cox: What about UCUM? [10:16] PeterYim: ... on slide #36 now [10:17] SteveRay: Slide 39 [10:18] dsssl hypergrove: question for Ralph: what property(s) are appropriate for associating an instance of a quantity with a resource for which it is an attribute?? [10:19] SimonSpero: @Ralph: skos:related denotes all relationships between two "things that something can be about" apart from synonymy and hierarchy. [10:19] Simon Cox: @dsslhypergrove wouldn't that be specific to the resource type? [10:20] Simon Cox: i.e. part of your application [10:21] dsssl hypergrove: really, specific to a type? wouldnt they be of a common subtype ? [10:22] dsssl hypergrove: eg MeasurableThing [10:22] Simon Cox: owl:ObjectProperty? [10:23] Simon Cox: Ah - you want to indicate that it is associated with a measurement procedure [10:23] Simon Cox: In ISO 19156 I coined <> stereotype for UML [10:23] dsssl hypergrove: well, perhaps QuantifiedThing - but that's more the base class of each of the types [10:23] PeterYim: @Ralph: what flavor of OWL is used for the QUDT ontology? [10:24] TaraAthan: expansion of the scale model beyond these "classical" four would be an important topic for QUOMOS [10:26] Simon Cox: # good for classes and properties, / for individuals [10:26] dsssl hypergrove: sorry, misspoke a bit - I am talking about a common superproperty that relates the quantitry resource to its attributed resource [10:27] Simon Cox: @dsslhypergrove Understood [10:28] dsssl hypergrove: so the question is: have you considered naming a super-property (or set of super-properties) most appropriate to relatea the measurement resource to its attributed resource [10:29] Simon Cox: I think the concern is to explain in what way that is different to owl:ObjectProperty [10:29] dsssl hypergrove: URL please for sean [10:30] dsssl hypergrove: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologyBasedStandards/2013-10-10_Case-for-QUOMOS/units-n-measures-in-engineering--SeanBarker_20131010.pdf [10:30] TaraAthan: I would like to know how to extra from QUDT just the subset of axioms that are needed for a particular application. [10:31] PeterYim: == SeanBarker briefing ... [10:31] PeterYim: @SeanBarker - oops! ref the format conversion error on slide#2; I will update the slide deck after the session [10:35] James Davenport: I may not be able to stay for the discussion, but in OpenMath/MathML, we regard 'pico' etc as prefixes, so we can build P*U units from P prefixes and U base units. Units are again defined in terms of the base units. [10:36] PeterYim: == SteveRay briefing ... [10:37] Simon Cox: @James Davenport - as does UCUM ... [10:37] RalphHodgson: @James this is how QUDT is doing this [10:38] RalphHodgson: @Tara - extra -> extract? [10:40] MichaelGruninger: @Ralph: Are all ontologies that correspond to the content on slide 29 available in the QUDT catalog at http://www.linkedmodel.org/catalog/qudt/1.1/index.html ? [10:41] Simon Cox: @Ralph Where are upgraded QUDT ontologies, with extra properties on QuantityKind etc? [10:41] RalphHodgson: @Peter - What used to be called OWL -Lite but a little more than that [10:41] RalphHodgson: @Peter - class axioms but no class expressions [10:42] PeterYim: == TobyConsidine making his observations ... [10:42] RalphHodgson: @Simon - QUDT release 2 has not been released yet - it will be once the NASA HQ review is done [10:42] RalphHodgson: @Simon - expect schemas in next 4 weeks [10:43] RalphHodgson: @Simon - on GiTHub [10:43] Simon Cox: @Ralph - no community review :-( [10:44] anonymous morphed into sean barker [10:44] RalphHodgson: @Simon - community review will follow NASA internal review for some things. Other community reviews will happen - e.g. Life Sciences [10:44] anonymous1 morphed into OnnoPaap [10:45] RalphHodgson: @Simon - vaem and provo might provide the right semantics for mentioning other things out there [10:47] dsssl hypergrove morphed into JohnMcClure [10:48] PeterYim: == PatHayes presenting ... please bring up his slides - under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10#nid3YG6 [10:49] PeterYim: ... on slide#2 now [10:49] PeterYim: ... on slide #3 now [10:50] RalphHodgson: @MichaelG - Not at the 1.1 catalog - will be on the 2.0 catalog - before that in GitHub - once NASA HQ review is closed [10:50] SimonSpero: Ralph - why not put them up on Github early so you can get pull requests [10:50] James Davenport: @RalphHodgson Then I must have misheard, I thought he said that kilonewtons and piconewtons were units [10:50] SimonSpero: @ralph : that's how the ISO C++ standards are being developed now [10:51] TaraAthan: Indeed the definition of certain units changes (discretely) in time based on, say, versions of the VIM. [10:53] PeterYim: ... on slide #5 now [10:56] ElisaKendall: Peter and all, apologies for dropping off - I've really enjoyed some of the discussion and had hoped to jump in on FIBO (and on the Date Time vocabulary work ongoing at OMG, which is now in UML, CL, OCL, and OWL), but have a call I couldn't get out of. Will follow the discussion, though. [10:56] PeterYim: ... on slide #8 now [10:57] PeterYim: ... on Pat's (last) slide #98 now [10:57] PeterYim: ^... on Pat's (last) slide #9 now [10:57] TaraAthan: Steven's scale is not enough. [10:57] BobbinTeegarden: If CL, what tools implement it that are available for lowly system architect trying to use these ontologies right now? [10:58] James Davenport: @all, sorry, need to go now [10:59] PatHayes1: Tara, by all means point me to other ideas. [10:59] PeterYim: @James Davenport - Thanks for joining us, James [10:59] SimonSpero: Bobbin: There's Hets to some extent [10:59] BobbinTeegarden: URL to Ontology Based Standards SIG? [10:59] PatHayes1: Bobbin, CL has parsers and reasoners (consistency checkers) but not al the connections to Web machinery (not yet). [11:00] SimonSpero: Bobbin: Also Fabian's PrIKL (which maybe he will have some time to work on this week :-) [11:00] PatHayes1: Thats the reasoner I was thinkig of :-) [11:00] JohnMcClure: 'ontology-BASED standards' seems quite different from 'standard ontology', right? An ontology-based std would be an ontology for specification of a standard, right? [11:01] SimonSpero: JohnMclure: That's what some of the later standards are aiming at [11:01] PatHayes1: JohnMcClure, that would make sense but its not the way the term is used, I think. [11:01] SimonSpero: s/standards/sessions [11:01] RalphHodgson: @simon - we can do some release before NASA HQ review is done - this is coming down to what cycles we have to get this done "now" - for me "now" is next 2 months [11:02] PatHayes1: who is speaking? [11:02] PatHayes1: tnx [11:03] Simon Cox: @Ralph - thanks - thats good, [11:03] PeterYim: @Pat - TaraAthan is speaking now [11:04] RalphHodgson: @MichaelGrunninger - would appreciate a pointer to ontology registry web page - rhodgson[at]nasa.gov - thanks [11:04] PatHayes1: Are the SSS cases wrong, or just incomplete? [11:04] MichaelGruninger: @JohnMcClure: "Ontology-based Standards" encompasses a range of efforts -- ontologies that are a part of a standard, ontologies that are being standardized, and ontologies that are used to augment an existing standard to provide unambiguous definitions of terms [11:04] AmandaVizedom: JohnMcClure: I think that there are use cases in play for both senses you mention: (a) standards that specify that all data of some type must be captured / exposed in terms of some ontology, and (b) standards that are themselves expressed in (& made precise, machine readable, etc., by) some ontology. But certainly, the two uses are different. [11:05] PatHayes1: Ah, OK. Yes, the scale is not the unit. [11:05] PeterYim: @RalphHodgson: - access to various instances of the open ontology repository - goto http://oor.net [11:05] Gary Berg-Cross: @Pat On your last slide you discuss 7 concepts. QUOMOS seems to include Dimension too. Is that important to add to your list? [11:05] RalphHodgson: @Tara - could you send me a pointer to what you just mentioned? Thanks - rhodgson[at]nasa.gov [11:06] PatHayes1: @Gary Yes., I had dimension there but removed it because it has several meanings and I wanted to get them straightened out first . [11:06] TaraAthan: @Ralph - yes, I'll have to dig these up in my reference manager. [11:07] TaraAthan: Plug for next week - the idea of "measurement" is related to the concept of "observation", which addressed by a couple of our speakers (Simon Cox and Cary Hanson) one week from now [11:08] TaraAthan: Cary -> Cory [11:08] TaraAthan: Hanson -> Henson :( [11:09] SimonSpero: http://sw.opencyc.org/2012/05/10/concept/en/FundamentalUnitType [11:09] PatHayes1: what we need is a generic English vowel. [11:09] Bruce Simons2: @Ralph And the 'car speed' concept is and instance of the 'velocity' QuanityKind [11:10] SteveRay: I need to leave, I'm afraid. Will review the rest of the session from the archives. [11:10] SimonSpero: http://sw.opencyc.org/2012/05/10/concept/en/UnitOfMeasure [11:10] Gary Berg-Cross: @pat You have Measurement. Act of taking a measure value, or the result of such an action. This involves the idea of Observation and I would expect this to be explored by @simon Cox in next weeks session of spatial standards and his talk on Observations and Measures. [11:10] RalphHodgson: @Bruce - speed is a property of the car - a property is a quantity that has a quantityKind - in this case velocity [11:11] sean barker: On uncertainty: I did not have time to mention the whole area of tolerances on engineering dimensions, covering not only variations in lenghts, but other measures such as straightness or circularity. [11:11] RalphHodgson: @sean +1 [11:12] SimonSpero: sean: The cyc UoM functions were/are variadic [11:12] PatHayes1: tnx [11:12] SimonSpero: sean: a single value is a point [11:13] SimonSpero: sean: two values is a closed real interval [11:13] RalphHodgson: @patHayes - thanks - I would like to review some aspects of the work with you [11:13] SimonSpero: sean: (or at least a closed interval) [11:13] PatHayes1: simon, a point in 3space is 3 values, surely. [11:14] SimonSpero: ScalarPoint, sorry [11:14] TaraAthan: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=quomos [11:14] Simon Cox: @Pat or is it a single value that can only be expressed with 3 numbers [11:15] Simon Cox: change of coordinate reference system does not change position, only the way it is expressed [11:15] SimonSpero: Also, the third dimension is just a theoretical hypothesis - see e.g.http://www.gutenberg.org/files/201/201-h/201-h.htm [11:16] Harold Boley: As mentioned by others,I think metrologists should be involved early on in a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard. For practical applications, Canadian metrologists could be reached via NRC's "Measurement science and standards": https://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/rd/mss/index.html [11:16] TaraAthan: another multidimensional quantity is color (RGB, HSV) [11:16] PatHayes1: I think a point in actual space is a physical system (hate that word) which has measurable properties, such as where it is. The coordinates are the measurements on some scale. Does that make sense? [11:17] Simon Cox: @Tara - ooh - that is a complex area. Depends on human optical-perceptual system. [11:17] TaraAthan: yeah, fun [11:17] PatHayes1: Harold, thanks. I ahve to say, metrologists in my experience do have rather intense intellectual turf battles. [11:17] AlexShkotin: We should collect units of measure by science (from physics to biology). Definitions come from particular science and its formalization. [11:18] PatHayes1: @AlexSHkotin, also commerce and engineering. [11:18] AlexShkotin: sic [11:18] TaraAthan: units for currency - highly dependent on time [11:18] PatHayes1: :-( [11:19] PatHayes1: Hopefully we can make it simply a matter of temporal indexing, so the unit might be dollars-at- and the like. [11:19] RalphHodgson: @AlexS - this is how QUDT is organized - domains of science and engineering - concept of discipline is distinct from domain [11:20] TaraAthan: there is bizarre stuff like atomic weights as well - it's dependent on space [11:20] PatHayes1: Another is hardness, which has many sclaes depending on measurement method, with complex nonlinear contextual mappings between them. [11:21] PatHayes1: I think an ontology at that point just has to classify them and hand conversions over to a specialist. [11:21] Gary Berg-Cross: people may be interested in the Ontology of Units of Measure and Related Concepts paper on OM http://www.semantic-web-journal.net/sites/default/files/swj177_7.pdf [11:22] AlexShkotin: @Tara, how? [11:22] TaraAthan: the isotopic ratio of elements is variable in space - it matters for e.g. geology [11:23] TaraAthan: the atomic weights published in the periodic table are "typical" values [11:23] PatHayes1: @Tara, do you mean the actual ratio varies with eg sample, or that the idea of the ration itself is context-dependent? [11:23] PatHayes1: ratio [11:24] Simon Cox: @Pat - it has measurable properties OK (position), and vector decomposition as well. But position is conceptually a single value? [11:25] PatHayes1: @Simon, good question, depends on your physics I think. Certainly it is in eg geography. [11:25] AlexShkotin: @Ralph, I just to say we formalize some science not just units of it:-) [11:25] Simon Cox: @Pat - geography one of the places I play! [11:25] PeterYim: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-17) for the OntologyBasedStandards miniseries session-5: "Ontology-based Standards in Geospatial Domains" - co-chairs: GaryBergCross & TaraAthan - ref. developing session dcetails at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17 [11:25] RalphHodgson: @Alex +1 [11:26] PatHayes1: @simonCox Me too, especially maps. [11:26] AlexShkotin: :-) [11:26] TaraAthan: @Pat - there is a standardized value of atomic weight, and there are corrections that may be made in the cases the accuracy matters - not sure if these corrections have been standardized. [11:26] Bruce Simons2: Thanks all [11:26] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:26am PDT -- [11:26] List of attendees: AlanRector, AlexShkotin, AmandaVizedom, BobbinTeegarden, Bruce Simons, Bruce Simons1, Bruce Simons10, Bruce Simons11, Bruce Simons2, Bruce Simons3, Bruce Simons4, Bruce Simons5, Bruce Simons6, Bruce Simons7, Bruce Simons8, Bruce Simons9, Ed Bernot, EdBernot, ElisaKendall, ElizabethFlorescu, Emilio Sanfilippo, Emilio Sanfilippo1, Gary Berg-Cross, Gary Berg-Cross1, Harold Boley, James Davenport, JoelBender, JohnMcClure, Masoumeh Nourollahi, MichaelGruninger, OnnoPaap, OnnoPaap1, PatHayes, PatHayes1, PeterYim, RalphHodgson, Richard Martin, Sean Barker, Simon Cox, SimonSpero, SteveRay, TaraAthan, Toby Considine, TobyConsidine, anonymous, anonymous1, dsssl hypergrove, sean barker, vnc2 [11:27] PatHayes1: @Tara. Hmmm. I was hoping that the ontology could assume properties were real, then deal wioth accuracy of measurement later. [11:27] PatHayes1: So there is AN atomic weight, but we might not know it exactly. But for isotope mixtures, maybe not. :-(( [11:28] AlexShkotin: @Tara atomic weight is calculated by q-mechanics;-) [11:28] AlexShkotin: @Tara atomic weight is calculated by q-mechanics;-) [11:28] TaraAthan: @Pat - AN atomic weight based on the actual distribution of isotopes in the entire universe? That is certainly time-dependent. [11:29] PatHayes1: Doesnt each isotope have its own atomic weight, so we are here talking about mixtures? [11:29] AlexShkotin: @Pat, exactly:-) [11:30] PatHayes1: OK, then that I think we can handle. [11:30] TaraAthan: @Alex - atomic weight is the old-fashioned term for - I am talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_atomic_mass [11:31] BobbinTeegarden: I think maybe Tara is saying that (alot of) things we express are in the end only approximate, and we aren't dealing with that in ontologies (right now)...? Tara? [11:32] TaraAthan: Each isotope has its own atomic mass, an element as a whole has an atomic weight. I am talking about standards. There is a standard relative atomic mass for each element. [11:32] BobbinTeegarden: An atomic weight is a 'name' for an approximation? [11:33] Simon Cox: A clarification - Simon Cox does not represent UCUM, just has used it a lot! [11:33] PeterYim: Thanks, Simon ... duly noted! [11:33] Simon Cox: UCUM does not formalize quantity-kinds, only units. Focusses on unit conversions. Leaves the other stuff for us (?) [11:33] AlexShkotin: @Tara, thanks, this is why we need formal definitions:-) [11:34] PatHayes1: OK, I will take that wikipedia article as a challenge. The ontology should provide enough concpets and distinctions that one can make sense of the discussion in that article. [11:34] PatHayes1: And now I ahve to leave to do some completely non-ontological stuff. [11:34] Simon Cox: But UCUM grammar for building unit symbols from primitives is worth inspection [11:35] Simon Cox: (UCUM comments 'for the record' as I don;t think voice was recorded) [11:35] TaraAthan: @Pat - yes, that is the point I was trying to get across - is something like atomic weight a quantity kind different from atomic mass? [11:36] PatHayes1: @TaraAthan, yes. [11:36] AlexShkotin: And "context" of particular science:-) Well, discipline;-) [11:36] PeterYim: @Simon & All - We have had conversations about UCUM with StanHuff and GuntherSchadow earlier - see under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard#nid2116 [11:37] PatHayes1: @Tara - and the hardnesses all measure different properties, though related. COntrast temperature scales, for example. [11:37] PatHayes1: Pater, is this IRC trace recorded for later reference? [11:37] Simon Cox: @Ralph - Discipline vs. domain? [11:38] AlexShkotin: Good talk. Sorry, I need to leave. C u. [11:38] Simon Cox: @Tara - Hardness (using traditional Moh's scale) is definitely *not* a 'quantity' as the units are not convertible. [11:39] PatHayes1: @Peter, OK I see it is. [11:40] PatHayes1: @Simon, but that is still a measurement scale which measures something. Thats what I needed the scale type classification for, to distinguish the mere ordering from a units/quantities scale. [11:40] TaraAthan: I hope we can pick up these discussions in a revived QUOMOS (I am a TC member). [11:40] PeterYim: @Pat - yes ... as always - full proceedings, including slides, chat-transcript, audio recording, etc. will be openly available online (say, in a day or two) - check back at the (same) session page - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_10 ...and look under the "Archives" section [11:41] PatHayes1: OK, really gotta go now. Bye. [11:41] TaraAthan: same here- bye [11:41] PeterYim: @TaraAthan - look forward to talking to you in the OASIS QUOMOS TC [11:41] ElizabethFlorescu: bye [11:41] Simon Cox: Nominal vs Ordinal, ratio vs interval [11:41] PeterYim: thanks for joining us from Romania, Elizabeth [11:42] ElizabethFlorescu: my pleasure, as always ;-) [11:42] PeterYim: bye everyone! Thank you all for the participation and contribution! [11:42] PeterYim: closing the chat-room now [11:42] Simon Cox: also circular, hierarchical, [11:42] Simon Cox: Bye [11:55] PeterYim: re [10:31] corrected SeanBarker slides now uploaded and linked to the page ------