ppy/OntologyBasedStandards-s02_chat-transcript_unedited_20121108a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20121108 2012-11-08 GMT-08:00 {PST] ------ [08:38] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologyBasedStandards Mini-series Session-2 - Thu 2012-11-08 = This is a Joint Initiative of OASIS, OMG, various ISO working groups, IAOA, OOR and ONTOLOG. * Topic: OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-2 - "Moving Forward with Ontology-based Standards: Sharing Experiences-II - Exemplars from OMG" * Session Co-chairs: Professor MichaelGruninger (IAOA; U of Toronto) & Mr. Eric S. Chan (OASIS ICOM TC; Oracle) * Panelists / Briefings: ** Ms. ElisaKendall (OMG; Thematix) - "Semantics and Standards Interoperability at OMG" ** Mr. MarkLinehan (OMG; IBM Research) - "The Date-Time Vocabulary, and Mapping SBVR to OWL" ** Dr. DavideSottara (OMG; Arizona State U) - "API for Complex Knowledge Bases : proposals and challenges" Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_11_08 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.) . == Proceedings: == . [09:21] PeterYim: Hi Eric, hi Ken! [09:24] anonymous morphed into FranLightsom [09:26] anonymous morphed into ElisaKendall [09:26] anonymous1 morphed into JuliaBermejo [09:27] anonymous2 morphed into Sean Barker [09:29] anonymous morphed into Jim Odell [09:31] anonymous morphed into Pete Rivett [09:31] anonymous morphed into TomTinsley [09:31] anonymous1 morphed into Bahareh Heravi [09:32] PeterYim: == Michael Gruninger opens the session ... [09:35] anonymous morphed into DavidWhitten [09:35] anonymous2 morphed into DougFoxvog [09:36] PeterYim: == ElisaKendall presenting ... [09:37] anonymous morphed into Malcolm Loveday [09:38] anonymous1 morphed into KenAllgood [09:41] anonymous morphed into Manfred Koethe [09:42] List of members: alex.shkotin, AnatolyLevenchuk, Bahareh Heravi, BobbinTeegarden, BobSmith, BrunoEmond, DaliaVaranka, DavidWhitten, DougFoxvog, Elie Abi-Lahoud, EricChan, FranLightsom, Jim Odell, JuliaBermejo, KenAllgood, KenBaclawski, Malcolm Loveday, Manfred Koethe, Mark H. Linehan, MichaelGruninger, Pete Rivett, PeterYim, Richard Martin, Rosario Uceda-Sosa, Sean Barker, SteveRay, TerryLongstreth, TomTinsley, VictorAgroskin, vnc2 [09:42] DavidWhitten: Is the VNC shared screen working ? [09:42] PeterYim: @DavidWhitten - yes [09:43] PeterYim: we're on Elisa's slide#2 now [09:44] DavidWhitten: I used http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ but only have a TightVNC link in the page. [09:45] PeterYim: @DavidWhitten - don't worry about it, just try to download slides and run them on your own desktop, the speaker(s) will prompt everyone to advance slides so people can stay in sync [09:45] PeterYim: slides are accessible at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_11_08#nid3HIG [09:45] Elie Abi-Lahoud: Me too, it seems the case when you are behind a firewall? ... [09:48] DougFoxvog: I'm behind a firewall, but the javascript window popped up. [I'm using Firefox.] I suppose you have to enable JavaScript. [09:53] DavidWhitten: When Elisa finishes it would be nice to see a link to some of the government metamodels she mentioned. I think (US) DoD has a good Metamodel work as well. http://metadata.ces.mil/dse/irs/DDMS/ [09:54] AnatolyLevenchuk: TightVNC not working with FireFox but works with MS IE for me. [09:56] anonymous morphed into BillNadal [09:56] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: My question to Elisa was, are there any guiding principles (for design or evaluation) with respect to the content or lexically (grammar/language/format) on all of these standards that OMG is currently developing? [09:57] PeterYim: == MarkLinehan presenting ... [09:57] DavidWhitten: Ah. I am using Firefox 16.0.2 - worked fine in Chrome. Maybe Firefox Java is having problems. [10:00] AnatolyLevenchuk: Relatively fresh OMG drafts of Information Exchange Framework (IEF) and Information Exchange Policy Vocabulary (IEPV) -- http://www.asmg-ltd.com/ief/12-08-01.pdf [10:01] PeterYim: @DavidWhitten ... I just tested the vnc access with FireFox 16.0.2 too, and it work ... one will have to wait a bit (mine took about 12 seconds) for the viewer to download ... if that wasn't it, then it's probably related to whether java/javascript has been enabled for your browser [10:02] PeterYim: ^"it worked properly" [10:04] ElisaKendall: @Rosario -- with respect to grammar/language/format, I mentioned that our work is based on the language standards already available from the OMG -- the Ontology Definition Metamodel (ODM) is available at http://www.omg.org/spec/ODM/ and SBVR is available at http://www.omg.org/spec/SBVR/. With respect to methodology, we have some community rules of thumb, but nothing aside from general OMG methods from a model driven architecture perspective published to date for vocabulary or ontology design/development/evaluation, etc. Having said that, Deb McGuinness and I are working on an eBook on methodology based on our SemTech tutorial, which I anticipate will be available from Morgan Claypool sometime next year. Once the basic starting point is done, we're hoping to extend that with a companion eBook focused on the OMG work we're doing, and that can be used as guidance for folks developing standard vocabularies at OMG. The first "! ;piece" of methodology we're working on at OMG is a standard set of annotations for ontology metadata, some of which Mark will talk about as part of what we're doing with the mapping from SBVR to OWL. We should have that available publically in the next several weeks as an architecture board recommendation. [10:05] Pete Rivett: XML Schema is not Platform Independent [10:07] PeterYim: @BillNadal - welcome ... could you drop me an email with your affiliation please, so we can get your registered, and keep you apprised on contintuing activities of this group - mailto: peter.yim [at] cim3.com [10:08] ElisaKendall: @DavidWhitten -- there are two specifications already available at OMG that we've been working on with respect to information exchange standards to meet government information sharing needs. These include the SOPES specification I mentioned, which stands for Shared Operational Picture Exchange Services, available at http://www.omg.org/spec/SOPES/, and the UPDM specification, which stands for UML profile for DoDAF and MoDAF, available at http://www.omg.org/spec/UPDM/. The latter is quite mature, and the 2.0 version is available on the OMG site. [10:12] SteveRay: www.qudt.org is also a pretty complete model of quantities [10:13] PeterYim: @MarkLinehan - ref. your slides#9 - when we (PatHaes, myself and others) are resuming work on the OASIS QUOMOS TC (happening soon), we will definitely look forward to collaborating with you on your ongoing related work [10:15] DavidWhitten: Question for Mark H. Lineham, does this handle time as identified in a book, where the exact beginning or end of a time interval is identified by "the time a particular line in the story occurs" ? [10:16] DougFoxvog: I don't see time zones mentioned in the Date-Time slides. Are time zones included in this ontology? [10:18] ElisaKendall: @Steve and @Peter, we are hoping that the work that's being done at OMG for units from this Date Time Vocabulary and from SysML will feed into the QUOMOS activity. Recent OMG work includes aligning what was done in SysML with the Date Time effort, which we think will also resolve some of the representational issues that originally split the QUDV (ESA/NASA/JPL/OMG) and QUDT (NASA/TQ) communities. [10:18] MatthewWest: How do you identify the boundaries of a time interval? [10:19] Pete Rivett: is it really one to many from Occurrence to Kind? A real occurrence such as a Fire could be an instance of many kinds e.g. Fire, Disaster, High Temperature Event, Insurance Claim Event [10:21] PeterYim: ... on Mark's slide 15 now [10:22] DougFoxvog: on slide 17 [10:22] PeterYim: Mark start presenting the work on Mapping SBVR Vocabularies to OWL2, a joint work of MarkLinehan, ElisaKendall et al. [10:25] ElisaKendall: @Matthew -- in the specification, there is some discussion of this in under 8.3.2, when you map a time interval to a specific situation or occurrence, see http://www.omg.org/spec/DTV/ for the current version, although there will be a better one out after the first of the year based on the revision Mark just mentioned. [10:26] PeterYim: ^^PatHayes (not "PatHaes") [10:30] anonymous morphed into Tara Athan [10:31] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: @Elisa, is it possible to have a copy of the SemTech tutorial materials? (I won't divulge it and use it as 'under work' materials) [10:32] PeterYim: ... on slide #27 now (last slide on Mark's deck) [10:34] Elie Abi-Lahoud: @rosario: A copy of Elisa's ontology 101 on slideshare : http://www.slideshare.net/thematixpartners/ontology101-20110604-kendallmcguinness?ref=http://thematix.com/ontology-101-a-primer-on-semantic-web-technology/ [10:36] PeterYim: == DavideSottara presenting ... [10:36] ElisaKendall: @Rosario -- we've posted it on our Thematix site, with the latest version at http://thematix.com/ontology-101-an-introduction-to-semantic-technology/ (thanks Elie!). The eBook is more comprehensive with respect to methodology, but doesn't cover the languages so much -- there are lots of other books that do, including "Semantic Web for the Working Ontologist" by Jim Hendler and Dean Allemang, which we use when teaching, along with John Sowa's Knowledge Representation book for some of the more basic KR background. [10:42] Mark H. Linehan: @SteveRay we are aware of qudt and also qudv; both overlapped our work in time; we minimized what we addressed in this area with the idea that someday there should be a much more complete quantities vocabulary. [10:43] Mark H. Linehan: @PeterYim we are glad to contribute any insights from the Date-Time Vocabulary to QUOMOS or other such efforts [10:43] PeterYim: Thanks, Mark! [10:45] Mark H. Linehan: @DavidWhitten the start and/or end of a time interval can be identified by 'situation kinds' or 'occurrences' - I think that does what you want [10:46] Mark H. Linehan: @DougFoxvog yes, there is support for time zones in the Date-Time Vocabulary [10:49] Mark H. Linehan: @MatthewWest - there are 3 ways to identify the "boundaries of a time interval": (1) by events (situation kinds, occurrences); (2) by time coordinates (i.e. literals such as '2pm'); (3) by what SBVR calls 'definite descriptions' (i.e. formulations) such as "2 hours after the close of business" [10:50] Mark H. Linehan: @Pete Rivett: one situation kind may have zero to n occurrences. Anoccurrence may exemplify multiple situation kinds. [10:58] Ram D. Sriram: @Davide. I probably missed the beginning, but which organization are you targeting. About ten years ago, we had OMG put out an RFP on Knowledge-based Interoperability, but there was no interest from the industry. [10:59] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: @Elisa Yes, I'm aware of Jim's work... I'm just trying to collect effective ways to measure the effectiveness of an ontology (or semantic model in general) so any other references that come to mind will be really useful. [11:00] MatthewWest: @Mark I was concerned about things like the boundary between two days. You said that you had no such thing as an instance in time, so I was wondering how you handled such practical things as this. [11:00] anonymous morphed into Fran Lightsom [11:03] alex.shkotin: CNL4KB should be fruitful. [11:10] JuliaBermejo: Need to go. Thank you for a very interesting session. See you in next one. [11:10] ElisaKendall: @Ram -- the API4KBs RFP was more recent, and was specific to Semantic Web technologies originally, but we've expanded the scope to enable richer interoperability. The original RFP is available at http://www.omg.org/techprocess/meetings/schedule/API4KB.html, and came out in 2010. Thales was the main author, but several folks in the Ontology PSIG reviewed it at several points along the way. We will be working on the architecture for two days just before the Burlingame meeting (12/8-9), and then there will be follow-up discussions in Reston in March. I had hoped Evan would be able to work on this with us, but that doesn't appear possible, aside from possibly by phone, depending on his availability. Evan, Roy Bell, Hugues Vincent, and several others including me did look at the original RFP that you all developed, but really wanted to bring it forward to address the ontology and classification / rules / predictive analytics / NL! P interoperability challenges we've been running into. I'd be happy to share more history, etc. offline -- feel free to drop me a note at ekendall [at] thematix.com. [11:14] PeterYim: @Julia - thank you for joining us today ... and, again, welcome back! [11:14] alex.shkotin: @ELisa your url asks login+password:-( [11:15] PeterYim: == Q&A and open discussion now ... [11:15] ElisaKendall: @Rosario -- Deb and I been talking about criteria for evaluation, and what we might include in the eBook, but it's a fairly broad topic that probably deserves it's own effort. Criteria really depend on the use case(s) for developing the ontology in the first place, and while the degree to which one can answer competency questions, precision, and recall are the primary metrics from a historical perspective, there may be additional metrics you could consider in the context of some of these more complex applications. If I think of anything else, I'll be happy to drop you a note, or if you find things you'd like to point me to, please do! [11:16] Ram D. Sriram: @ElisaKendall: Thanks for the clarification. I will follow up with you later. [11:16] PeterYim: * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to get back to mute again (after speaking) [11:16] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: @Elisa, pls, let's start an informal conversation on this. Feel free to drop me a note at rosariou [at] us.ibm.com [11:17] Mark H. Linehan: @MatthewWest Date-Time defines the idea of 'time points', which are concepts of time intervals that are distinguished by being defined according to a time scale. Time points are aligned (e.g. to midnight) and have a specific duration [11:17] ElisaKendall: @Alex -- if you can't get to it directly, please drop my partner, Larry Smith, a note, and I'm sure he will provide access. Larry's email is lsmith [at] thematix.com [11:17] ElisaKendall: @Rosario -- will do. [11:17] alex.shkotin: @Elisa, thank you. [11:18] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: @Elisa thanks! [11:18] Rosario Uceda-Sosa: @All, gotta go, but thanks for a great discussion! This was really helpful [11:19] PeterYim: @Rosario - Thanks for joining us and for the contribution today [11:22] EricChan: On behalf of the speakers (of 10/25 and 11/08 sessions), I would like to highlight the call for participations in ontology-based standards activities in OASIS and OMG TCs. Ken, Peter, and I have the following call to action message: ICOM domain is an amalgamation of the data object models (hidden pearls) in disparate standards that address different aspects (such as protocol, operation, encoding, interface) of interoperability between applications. Ontology-based standardization of ICOM harmonizes the data object model for representation and transformation among ontology/programming languages. This work can be further formalized with SBVR and ODM. Further ontology-based standardization of ICOM domain can provide a semantic model of collaborative interactions that permeate through all human activities. We welcome participants to contribute to extend ICOM as a showcase for a community of practice in ontology-based standards. Join us at https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=icom. [11:23] Mark H. Linehan: @MatthewWest (continuing...) the 'boundaries' between two days are the start and end of the time intervals that instantiate the 'calendar day' time points [11:25] PeterYim: @ALL: would love to get input from everyone here on how we could move the "Ontology-based Standards" agenda forward [11:26] PeterYim: specifically ... do YOU have recommendations on people and work that we might feature in upcoming mini-series sessions? [11:26] DavidWhitten: An example of this kind of time ontology, you have a document that states something occurs but doesn't have an actual time stamp, such as it occurs 1500 time-units (un-specified) after the beginning, and then the document states that the next thing that happens an unspecified number of iterations, and then the third thing that happens is known to happen during a particular unstated iteration after the start of the second thing. One of the known things is that the events are mentioned in the document in a particular order, but not that the events occur in that order. [11:28] alex.shkotin: @Peter, what about ISO 15926 overview? [11:28] Mark H. Linehan: You can certainly say things like one situation kind occurs after another one [11:28] PeterYim: Q to All: who else (working groups) should we be engaging? ... especially those who are working on a similar (OntologyBasedStandards) agenda [11:29] Elie Abi-Lahoud: @All, I have to go - thank you very much! [11:29] MatthewWest: I have to go. thanks. [11:30] PeterYim: @AlexShkotin - we have had several ISO 15926 presentation before, and those are on archive already (MatthewWest can probably chime in here) ... is there something specific that you are looking for? [11:30] ElisaKendall: @Michael -- I'd be happy to talk with you about other ontologies in some of our standards. The only one that's been published to date is the Date Time Vocabulary, but the Information Exchange Policy Vocabulary will be published early next year and is an ODM/OWL ontology. FIBO will also have multiple ontologies as part of the standard, which I think will be out sometime next year. [11:31] PeterYim: @AlexShkotin - I totally agree with you that we should (continue to) engage the ISO 15926 working group, given the great work they have been doing all along [11:31] ElisaKendall: @Michael -- I'll have to check with Craig Stancl and Harold Solbrig on whether or not there are ontologies embedded in CTS2 [11:31] alex.shkotin: @Peter, just how they use OWL:-) [11:34] Mark H. Linehan: One of the motivation for the Date-Time Vocabulary work is the idea that the ontology world needs cross-industry 'foundation' vocabularies/ontologies. [11:34] PeterYim: @AlexShkotin - thanks, Alex ... we'll try to follow-up with them (unfortunately, Matthew has signed off already, otherwise he could probably give a real time response now) [11:34] PeterYim: @AlexShkotin - are you on that (ISO 15926) working group? [11:35] Mark H. Linehan: It would make a lot of sense to restart the work on QUOMOS or to address similar cross-industry needs such as currency [11:36] PeterYim: @MarkLinehan - agree ... "currency?" that's a real challenge! ... we'll try [11:36] alex.shkotin: @Peter, no. [11:36] AnatolyLevenchuk: @Peter -- we (TechInvestLab) are members of POSCCaesar Association (ISO 15926). [11:36] Mark H. Linehan: FIBO either has currency or would be a good ally in defining it [11:37] BillNadal: thanks to all, useful and valuable information [11:37] AnatolyLevenchuk: ISO 15926 actively developing, there are many news about it. [11:38] PeterYim: @AnatolyLevenchuk - yes, please help relay this community request to the WG - would love to have members of your group join us in planning how we could move forward with the Ontology-based Standards agenda ... plus also, find a time when we could hear about work in OWL from you guys (as requested by AlexShkotin earlier) [11:39] ElisaKendall: Thanks everyone -- we really appreciate the attention and any of your thoughts/feedback would be most welcome. We also look forward to having any of you jump in to help with either initiative. [11:40] PeterYim: great session ... thank you all for the participation and contribution! Stay in touch - on the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_11_08#nid3HK5 [11:40] PeterYim: bye! [11:40] alex.shkotin: Goodbye all. Thanks! [11:40] AnatolyLevenchuk: @Peter -- OK [11:40] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:36am PST -- [11:40] List of attendees: AnatolyLevenchuk, Bahareh Heravi, Bill Freeman, BillNadal, BobSmith, BobbinTeegarden, BrunoEmond, DaliaVaranka, DavidWhitten, DougFoxvog, Elie Abi-Lahoud, ElisaKendall, EricChan, FranLightsom, FrankOlken, Jim Odell, JuliaBermejo, KenAllgood, KenBaclawski, Malcolm Loveday, Manfred Koethe, Mark H. Linehan, MatthewWest, MichaelGruninger, PaulCourtney, Pete Rivett, PeterYim, Ram D. Sriram, Richard Martin, Rosario Uceda-Sosa, Sean Barker, SteveRay, Tara Athan, TerryLongstreth, TomTinsley, VictorAgroskin, alex.shkotin, anonymous, anonymous1, anonymous2, vnc2 -----------