ppy/OntologPSMW-debut_chat-transcript_unedited_201201219a.txt ------ Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20121219 2012-12-19 GMT-08:00 [PST] ------ [09:10] PeterYim: Welcome to the = OntologPSMW: debut session - Wed 2012-12-19 = Topic: OntologPSMW: Debut, Tutorial and Possibilities Session Chair: PeterYim (Ontolog, CIM3) Invited Presentations: * Professor KenBaclawski (Northeastern U) - Transitioning to a Semantic Collaboration Environment slides * Mr. YaronKoren (WikiWorks) - Semantic MediaWiki and the "Semantic Bundle" Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_12_19 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later or the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. --- Attendees: AlanRector, Alexandra, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, AtillaElci, BobSchloss, Chet Ensign (OASIS), Duncan Goheen, KenBaclawski, MatthewWest, MikeBennett, MikeDean, PavithraKenjige, PeterYim, Prateek Jain - IBM, SteveRay, SumitPurohit, TejasParikh, TerryLongstreth, ToddSchneider, TomTinsley, Yaron Koren, DavidMason, MarcelaVegetti, vnc2 --- == Proceedings: == [09:23] anonymous morphed into Prateek Jain - IBM [09:23] anonymous1 morphed into BobSchloss [09:28] anonymous morphed into davidm [09:32] anonymous morphed into PavithraKenjige [09:34] AmandaVizedom2 morphed into AmandaVizedom [09:35] anonymous1 morphed into AtillaElci [09:36] anonymous morphed into Alexandra [09:38] anonymous1 morphed into TejasParikh [09:38] anonymous1 morphed into TomTinsley [09:38] anonymous morphed into Duncan Goheen [09:40] MatthewWest: I lost you Peter. Is it me or you? [09:41] Yaron Koren: I can still hear the audio. [09:41] AmandaVizedom: I still hear him, Matthew (via skype) [09:42] MatthewWest: Thanks. I'm on Skype, I'll dial in again. [09:45] MatthewWest: I'm back. [09:48] PeterYim: == KenBaclawski presenting ... [09:48] List of members: AlanRector, Alexandra, AmandaVizedom, AnatolyLevenchuk, AtillaElci, BobSchloss, Chet Ensign (OASIS)1, davidm, Duncan Goheen, KenBaclawski, marcelaVegetti, MatthewWest, MikeBennett, MikeDean, PavithraKenjige, PeterYim, Prateek Jain - IBM, SteveRay, SumitPurohit, TejasParikh, TomTinsley, vnc2, Yaron Koren [09:53] AtillaElci: PSMW Project (http://project.cim3.net/PSMW) returns 404 error! [09:54] PeterYim: sorry ... the link should be http://project.cim3.net/wiki/PSMW [09:56] PeterYim: today's session page on OntologPSWM is at: http://ontolog-02.cim3.net/wiki/ConferenceCall_2012_12_19 [09:57] MatthewWest: If the purple numbers are computed, does that mean that the reference for a particular section might change after a page has been updated (and thereby invalidate a link that has been made to it)? [10:01] Yaron Koren: I was wondering the same thing, actually. [10:02] SteveRay: Hmm. The coding doesn't look very user-friendly. [10:02] PeterYim: @Matthew & Yaron - very good and important question ... let's get that answered during the Q&A / Discussion [10:03] PeterYim: @Steve - that's where YaronKoren's SemanticForms extension come in [10:04] SteveRay: OK. Unfortunately, I will have to leave around 20 minutes past the hour, so I'll have to view the recording. [10:04] MatthewWest: A really good way to do it would be for there to be an underlying anchor that did not change, and to which the link was made, but a visible representation that did [10:07] SteveRay: The SPARQL example did not look like normal SPARQL syntax. Not familiar with the [] syntax. [10:10] AmandaVizedom: The heirarchical relationship between "Categories" in a Knowledge Organization Structure is usually a subtopic/supertopic relationship, rather than the typically ontological subClass/superClass relation. This causes a lot of confusion when people use KOS hierarchies in ontological environments, or ontologies in information organization environments. One way to resolve this is to interpret the ontological classes as eliptically named, that is, "mammals" becomes "documents about mammals". That allows preservation of subClass relationships, but really means that in using an ontology, one is really doing a two-layered trick, using the original ontology and relations between things in it, but also creating & using a ontology of documents about things in the original ontology. So far, I'm suspecting that this is such a case. Not a problem, inherently, but something that becomes important to be clear about ! when using existing ontologies. [10:11] SteveRay: @Amanda: Very interesting distinction - thanks. I can see the potential for a big mess. [10:12] PeterYim: == YaronKoren presenting ... [10:14] SteveRay: These queries don't appear to be standard SPARQL. #show? [10:14] SteveRay: Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Is there a native query language, PLUS support for SPARQL? [10:15] AmandaVizedom: @Steve - YW. I have done clean-up on a number of well-intended reuses of ontologies as KOSes and vice versa, in which the different behavior of subClass and subTopic wasn't understood. So I'm attuned to pick up that pattern. It can be done and done well, though; it's just important to understand which layers or behaviors are using the original ontology and which are using the corresponding KOS/document ontology. [10:20] SteveRay: It also appears that the ontology specification language is not a standard one, such as Turtle, or RDF-XML. I look forward to hearing how these new syntaxes map to traditional ones. I will have to hear the answers off-line, as I must leave now. [10:24] PeterYim: @Ken, @Yaron - kindly discuss support for SPARQL queries [10:43] Yaron Koren: http://foodfinds.referata.com [10:44] KenBaclawski: @Steve: #show is not SPARQL: the label on my slide was incorrect. However, we do plan to support SPARQL. [10:45] MatthewWest: Sorry, have to go. Interesting stuff. [10:50] PeterYim: @Alexandra - can we get your full name, please? (you can morph into that by clicking the "Settings" button (top center) [10:57] SumitPurohit: Thanks Everyone...have to go. Thanks for participation. [11:01] AmandaVizedom: @Ken - it's actually *very* common to reorganize and/or add sections to a page [11:01] PeterYim: see: http://ontolog-02.cim3.net/wiki/ConferenceCall_2012_12_19 [11:02] AmandaVizedom: & it may be that the TOC is enough [11:05] AtillaElci: @Peter: Do you mean to say that a purple number once use will never get used? [11:07] AtillaElci: If so, a purple number then provides an immediate tiny URL . That would be wonderfull. [11:12] AmandaVizedom: History available at TOC section level? [11:19] KenBaclawski: The ICOM website is https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=icom [11:19] AmandaVizedom: I asked about the extent to which ontology has been incorporated into the Ontolog PSMW so far. Ken responded that the ICOM ontology has been, and that this concerns collaborative work, so seemed appropriate. More discussion will be open about what we want to support. [11:19] AmandaVizedom: Thanks, @Ken [11:21] PeterYim: should we have another OntolgoPSMW session for OntologySummit2013 champions on what-to and how-to's [11:23] PeterYim: soliciting inputs to - http://ontolog-02.cim3.net/wiki/Demos_Prototypes_Examples & http://ontolog-02.cim3.net/wiki/Issues_Bugs_Suggestions [11:28] TerryLongstreth: about querylanguage standards: There may be some synergy between SMW and the DOL activities [11:31] Prateek Jain - IBM: Using OWL? [11:32] TerryLongstreth: or using Common Logic [11:33] Prateek Jain - IBM: Yes [11:34] Prateek Jain - IBM: I believe you can. [11:34] AmandaVizedom: It is not straightforward in OWL, but easy-peasy in a more expressive ontology language. :-) [11:34] Prateek Jain - IBM: But I will confirm it, with Pascal Hitzler [11:34] Prateek Jain - IBM: not strightforward yes :-) [11:34] MikeBennett: I think as soon as we look at using RDF/OWL and queries across the wiki pages, we need to keep Amanda's earlier point front and center. That is, the OWL thing which is "Article about a Thing" is not the same as, but has an object property relating to, the kind of OWL Thing which is the thing itself. Else pain will ensue. [11:35] Yaron Koren: That's very good to know, then. Any documentation would be useful - if you find it, I would definitely appreciate it if you sent me any links - yaron [at] wikiworks.com. [11:35] Prateek Jain - IBM: Can you give me the exact example? [11:35] Prateek Jain - IBM: I will just send it over to Pascal and he might be able to look at it and give the definite answer [11:36] Yaron Koren: Prateek - something like "Every entity that is a city should have a relationship called "Population", and another relationship called "Mayor", and nothing else." [11:36] Prateek Jain - IBM: Okay! I will send it over. Thanks [11:37] Yaron Koren: Thank you! [11:37] MikeBennett: Happy Holidays to you Peter! [11:37] davidm: thanks ! [11:37] AtillaElci: By [11:37] marcelaVegetti: Thanks [11:37] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:37am PST -- [11:37] List of attendees: AlanRector, Alexandra, AmandaVizedom, AmandaVizedom1, AmandaVizedom2, AnatolyLevenchuk, AtillaElci, BobSchloss, Chet Ensign (OASIS), Chet Ensign (OASIS)1, Duncan Goheen, KenBaclawski, MatthewWest, MikeBennett, MikeDean, PavithraKenjige, PeterYim, Prateek Jain - IBM, SteveRay, SumitPurohit, TejasParikh, TerryLongstreth, ToddSchneider, TomTinsley, TomTinsley1, TomTinsley2, TomTinsley3, TomTinsley4, TomTinsley5, Yaron Koren, anonymous, anonymous1, davidm, marcelaVegetti, vnc2 ------