ppy/EarthScienceOntolog-s02_chat-transcript_unedited_20120906a.txt --------- Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20120906 2012-09-06 GMT-08:00 --------- [08:47] PeterYim: Welcome to the = EarthScienceOntolog: Panel Session-02 - Thu 2012-09-06 = Mini-Series Theme: An Earth Science Ontology Dialog ("EarthScienceOntolog") Session Topic: Ontology Development and Application across Earth Science Systems Lifecycle Session Co-chairs: Dr. GaryBergCross, Dr. NaicongLi Panel-Briefings: * Dr. GaryBergCross (SOCoP; Knowledge Strategies) - EarthScienceOntolog Session-2 Intro: "Needs for Improved Semantics across the Earth Science Lifecycle" * Dr. RichardHooper (CUASHI) - "Implementing a community-governed ontology: Experiences from the Water Sciences Community" * Professor PeterFox (RPI/TWC) - "Life cycle semantics in Earth and space sciences - what's worked (and not) and where are we... a decade in..." * Mr. MattiaSantoro (CNR, Italy) "A Semantic Broker for enhancing resources discovery," a work by StefanoNativi, MattiaSantoro, C. Fugazza, M. Craglia * Dr. NaicongLi (U of Redlands), Dr. PhilipMurphy (U of Redlands), Professor KrzysztofJanowicz (UC Santa Barbara) - "An ontology-driven framework and web portal for spatial decision support" Logistics: * Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_09_06 * (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName * Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute * Can't find Skype Dial pad? ** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad" ** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.) --- Attendees: Alex Sorokine, Anne Thessen, BobbinTeegarden, Chuck Ward, ClarePaul, Cybershare - Deana Pennington, DaliaVaranka, Deborah Nichols, Don Elsborg, Doug Fils, doug foxvog, ElizabethFlorescu, Frank Chum, FrankDAgnese, FrankOlken, Francois de Beuvron, Gary Berg-Cross, Genhan Chen, JackRing, Joel Sachs, Kai Liu-GMU, KenBaclawski, Krzysztof Janowicz, LeoObrst, Marcio Faerman, Marshall X Ma, Mattia Santoro, Naicong Li, NancyWiegand, PatriceSeyed, Peter Fox, PeterYim, Philip Murphy, Rich Keller, Rick Hooper, Robert Downs, Ruth Duerr, Scott Hills, Scott Peckham, SiriJodha Khalsa, SumitPurohit, TaraAthan, TerryLongstreth, TomTinsley, Uma, --- . == Proceedings: == . [08:50] anonymous morphed into Mattia Santoro [09:18] anonymous morphed into TomTinsley [09:22] anonymous morphed into Naicong Li [09:23] anonymous1 morphed into Genhan Chen [09:25] anonymous1 morphed into Rick Hooper [09:25] anonymous morphed into Don Elsborg [09:26] anonymous morphed into Peter Fox [09:26] Gary Berg-Cross: Hello Peter et al [09:27] Gary Berg-Cross: I see that all the speakers are on the chat! [09:28] anonymous morphed into Doug Fils [09:28] anonymous1 morphed into ElizabethFlorescu [09:29] anonymous3 morphed into ClarePaul [09:29] anonymous1 morphed into Kai Liu-GMU [09:30] anonymous morphed into Deborah Nichols [09:31] SiriJodha Khalsa: is there any way to preserve the chat session? [09:31] anonymous1 morphed into Philip Murphy [09:32] anonymous1 morphed into PatriceSeyed [09:33] anonymous1 morphed into Ruth Duerr [09:33] anonymous morphed into Francois de Beuvron [09:35] PeterYim: == GaryBergCross presenting the introduction to this session ... [09:36] anonymous morphed into doug foxvog [09:36] anonymous1 morphed into FrankOlken [09:37] anonymous1 morphed into Philip Murphy [09:37] anonymous morphed into Alex Sorokine [09:38] anonymous1 morphed into Marshall X Ma [09:38] SiriJodha Khalsa: the diagram was a consensus diagram developed at the EarthCube PI workshop. It originated at CNR [09:38] anonymous morphed into Joel Sachs [09:39] SiriJodha Khalsa: this diagram (slide 5) did originate w/ Interop group. the previous consensus diagram originated with the brokering group [09:42] anonymous morphed into TaraAthan [09:42] PeterYim: == RickHooper presenting his talk ... [09:47] Gary Berg-Cross: @SiriJohha Thanks for the history of the graphics. I should have said that I got them from INTEROP Concept gp slides. [09:47] PeterYim: @Gary - in between speakers, would you please remind those on the call, who haven't logged into the chat-room, to join us there (we now have 48 people on the conference bridge, but only 37 in the chat-room [09:50] LeoObrst: @SiriJohha: Yes, the chat will be preserved. Ontolog always captures these, along with an audio file of the presentations. [09:51] SiriJodha Khalsa: why distinguish between ET from atmos energy budget and a pan measurement? [09:51] SiriJodha Khalsa: conceptually? [09:55] SiriJodha Khalsa: Scott P. - you've given a lot of thought to what should be in a variable name, in the metadata and in an associated ontology. seems like these are getting mixed up [09:56] JackRing: "When should scientist consult original source?" Always, and first. The use of surrogate terms to represent context ALWAYS yields unacceptable Type 1 and Type 11 errors. Pls be aware that you are being influenced by the presumption of von Neumann machines whereas modern data relationship/flow machines are now available. [09:58] SiriJodha Khalsa: Mattia - convey across communities or simply provide brokering service? [09:59] JackRing: TKU, Rick. Well said. [10:00] Philip Murphy: what wah the URL to the HIS project? [10:00] PeterYim: == PeterFox delivering his brief ... [10:00] anonymous morphed into Rich Keller [10:00] anonymous1 morphed into Robert Downs [10:01] Scott Peckham: Hi SiriJodha. The issues with data discovery and knowledge capture are different than the "semantic mediation" issues that the CSDMS Standard Names were designed to address. [10:02] Rick Hooper: There is a cost to documenting data for re-use that data publishers tend not to want to incur. It doesn't help them personally. We need to reward the effort required for data documentation. [10:03] Scott Peckham: The CSDMS Standard Names are described on our wiki at: http://csdms.colorado.edu/wiki/CSDMS_Standard_Names. [10:04] Mattia Santoro: @SiriJodha - I think the two things are not in "contrast", brokering is a way of homogenizing metadata and data models across communities and information systems [10:06] anonymous morphed into SumitPurohit [10:07] FrankOlken: Rick, How are you storing (and retrieving) the various hydrological time series: a relational DBMS, HDF5 files, ??? [10:07] Rick Hooper: relational DBMS [10:11] Marshall X Ma: http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/11926078_57; http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cageo.2007.12.019; links to the two papers Peter mentioned. With some details of the ontology works [10:13] Marshall X Ma: delete the ; in the link [10:13] PeterYim: @Marshall - try not to append any symbol to the url (they get included and the url won't work) [10:14] Marshall X Ma: @PeterYim: thanks [10:14] PeterYim: ^@Marshall, Scott and all [10:18] Scott Peckham: Here is the CSDMS link without trailing punctuation: http://csdms.colorado.edu/wiki/CSDMS_Standard_Names [10:25] PeterYim: == MattiaSantoro presenting ... [10:30] Peter Fox: I cannot hear the presenter [10:30] SiriJodha Khalsa: yes I can hear the speaker well [10:30] Gary Berg-Cross: So can I. [10:31] Peter Fox: I will call back in. [10:31] PeterYim: @Peter - I can hear the speaker too, you might want to re-connect to the conference briedge, and see if that helps [10:31] JackRing: What are the limitations of searching words in free text? [10:32] Peter Fox: thanks @ppy, back on and can hear now. [10:33] PeterYim: my pleasure ... btw, ALL: Mattia is on slide#8 now [10:34] Genhan Chen: Rick, on your slide 6 and 7, for the hierachical data, do you just map "leaves" to variables for search? I am wondering how you deal with their parents' information (e.g. core concept, property or branch). [10:36] SiriJodha Khalsa: automatic mapping is the crux, and most challenging aspect of 3-party mediation [10:38] PeterYim: @ALL - Mattia is on slide#11 now [10:38] Rick Hooper: Genhan: Yes, but I should note that a leaf can be attached to more than one branch, so it is not a strict hierarchy. There is no user input to the hierarchy--we control it. Does that answer your question? [10:41] Genhan Chen: Rick, does it mean the parents' information will be lost? [10:42] PeterYim: ALL: Mattia is on slide#15 now [10:43] SiriJodha Khalsa: question for Mattia: will the semantic broker be able to discover and utilize vocabularies/thesauri/ontologies associated with a data source? [10:46] SiriJodha Khalsa: Mattia - does a new adapter have to be created for each new semantic resource? [10:46] JackRing: Mattia. Will you be measuring False Positives and False Negatives? [10:47] PeterYim: == NaicongLi presenting ... [10:48] FrankOlken: Rick, Out of curiousity, which relational DBMS are you using for the hydrological time series? [10:52] SiriJodha Khalsa asked for a victim, I choose... Scott Hills [10:53] Frank Chum: I second [10:54] PeterYim: :) ... @all: since we aren't volunteering anyone to do anything for now, please ignore the above (we'll make victims some other time) [10:54] Mattia Santoro: @SiriJodha - A new adapter has to be created for each communication protocol and/or data/metadata model [10:55] Rick Hooper: @Genhan: Not sure what you mean. The parent information is not 'lost', but it is not transmitted to the user with the data or metadata return. Only the concept and the publisher's variable name is transmitted to the user. [10:55] Rick Hooper: @FrankOlken: This is all on the MS platform, so we are using MS SQL Server [10:56] Mattia Santoro: @JackRing - yes false positive is one thing we will measure to improve the association strategy [10:59] Mattia Santoro: @JackRing - the main issue with free text is in multidisciplinary contexts, where the same word might have different meanings depending on the discipline (or sometimes even depending on the language) [11:03] Frank Chum: Great presentation, NaicongLi. Sorry I have to jump off to another meeting. [11:03] Genhan Chen: Thank you, Rick. That is what I would like to know. [11:05] JackRing: Mattia, TKU. How will you measure false negatives, i.e., things that existed but not found? [11:07] JackRing: Mattia, Cannot the ambiguity of what a word signifies be resolved by assessing context? Are you seeking to avoid combinatorial explosions in the computations? [11:09] PeterYim: == open Q&A and discussion ... please click on "hand" button (lower right) to notify the chair, and when recognized, announce yourself and make sure you can be heard before speaking [11:09] anonymous1 morphed into FrankD`Agnese [11:14] BobbinTeegarden: @all speakers What are you using for visualization, and is there any direct interaction with the visualization itself? [11:14] Rick Hooper: Startree viewer is what we are using, but there are problems with that. [11:14] Krzysztof Janowicz: Are you asking about ontology alignment? [11:16] SiriJodha Khalsa: thanks [11:17] Gary Berg-Cross: >Are you asking about ontology alignment? I don't think so. [11:19] Krzysztof Janowicz: @SiriJodha: With respect to Spatial Data infrastructures there is work on the automatic meditation of sensor metadata and observation data to ease the registration at Sensor Observation Services. I would consider this similar to a brokering with a reduced amount of human interaction. [11:23] JackRing: Whereas each of us has a 25.000 to 75,000 word vocabulary many projects/companies run just fine with 2500 word vocabularies. Local ontologies are necessary. However Log(variety) = K*Log(extent) so as we seek interoperability among ever-larger communities then the ability to interoperate local ontologies becomes valuable. [11:23] anonymous morphed into DaliaVaranka [11:25] Krzysztof Janowicz: I could not agree more. [11:26] PeterYim: @Krzysztof - kindly provide some context for your remarks ... otherwise, it will mean very little in the archives [11:28] Gary Berg-Cross: Krzysztof comment above was in the context of my Q on value of taxonomies and modular ontologies. [11:28] Krzysztof Janowicz: I agree that while terminologies are important, common agreement is not always important and difficult to archive. [11:29] Marcio Faerman: @JackRing, could you please explain what you mean by K, variety and extent in your previous statement? Thanks! [11:29] Gary Berg-Cross: I want mention the Dayton Vocamp this Sept 15-17 which may be of interest to some session attendees. Kno.e.sis Center at the Department of Computer Science and Engineering of Wright State University in Dayton, OH focus on the observation-driven engineering of geo-ontologies by developing small, self-contained, and reusable geo-ontology design patterns that can be used to annotate geo-data http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDayton2012 [11:32] PeterYim: == GaryBergCross wrapping up the session ... [11:32] PeterYim: join us again for session-3 of this mini-series on Oct-11 ... please mark your calendars [11:32] Philip Murphy: Could we have such a Use Case <> Ontology development Onotolog session in the future? [11:33] Gary Berg-Cross: >Could we have such a Use Case <> Ontology development Onotolog session in the future?I'm all for it [11:33] Marcio Faerman: Ditto, @Philip Murphy [11:33] PeterYim: great session, thank you ALL, speakers and participants! [11:33] JackRing: @Marcio. As a system gets larger in scope (extent) it inexorably gets increasingly heterogeneous (variety of elements and relatioinships). In complex systems research we often not that the relatioin is log(variety) = 0.7*log(extent) however many systems are messy so we even see that variety increases in a static system. [11:34] Scott Hills: Re: Future Use Case <> Ontology session - I agree. [11:34] Marcio Faerman: Tks @JackRing! [11:34] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:34am PDT -- ---------